Which plecs would be best in my Discus tank?

[fishy knickers]

Hi, I have an adult pair of L333's, a small breeding colony of BN and an L14. I have a very large tank (6x2x2) into which I will be transferring some discus to. I would like some advice on which plecs I could keep in with them if any..and which I should keep in a seperate tank. The water will be pH6 (what my RO makes it)...and the temp needs to be at least 80 for the discus.

Does anyone on here have any experience of mixing plecs with Discus at low pH?

Many thanks.

[MatsP]

I doubt there are any plecos that object to low pH particuarly much. And the temperature is perfect for Rio Xingu plecos (e.g. L333, L066, Scobinancsitrus aureatus (L014), etc, etc). Many others will work too, so it's mainly a case of "what would you like".

Making it a "meat-eater" will probably not be a bad idea, so

Hypancistrus

will be a good choice. Or the omnivore

Peckoltia

genus - perhaps

Peckoltia sp(L134)

.

For the sake of the Discus, I would avoid the temptation of quite aggressive/boisterous plecos like

Leporacanthicus

and

Pseudacanthicus

. These grow quite large and will perhaps cause problems with the discus if they decide to go after the same food and such. Discus aren't the most confident fish at best of times, and will not like a "bully fish" that CAN defend itself quite well.

Hemiancistrus

may also be a good choice, as will some species of

Baryancistrus

- with the latter, be careful that they get enough fiber in their diet and don't eat too much of the protein rich discus food.

There's probably half a dozen or more genus that I've NOT covered that would work too. It's really not hard to find fish that would work in this setup.

I would avoid

Sturisoma

, as Larry (Apistomaster) has had problems with them sucking on the side of the Discus.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Mats' advice is spot on but if you have a pair of L333 already i'm tempted to say create a colony with addition of several more to introduce new bloodlines, ensuring quality offspring

[RickE]

I have 2 x 4-5" L264, 3 x 3-4" L201 and recently 3 x 1/5- 2" L183 in with my discus in a 350L Trigon. They don't seem to pay any attention to each other at all. I also have 3 x C. sterbai which seem fine at the temp (83-84 F).

[fishy knickers]

RickE...I know tou keep 84 degrees ...but what pH is your water?And have you managed any plec spawnings at these temperatures?

Cheers

[apistomaster]

I keep a bushy nose or two and 12 L134 in my wild Alenquer Discus tank, a 125 gal tank six feet long.
I recommend that you keep your Discus at 84 to86*F. Less than 84 is not good for discus.
Since I raise L134 I have access to plenty of them and I use them instead of Corydoras as my tank bottom cleaners.

I see another question was posted will I was writing.
All the Peckoltia and Hypancistrus I keep and breed are kept at 84 to 86*F.

[fishy knickers]

Apistomaster...what is the pH of your water? Do you think that 6pH will be ok? I currently keep my discus at 85 .

How often do your L333's spawn, and what do they seem to prefer spawning in? (don't say water!!!!...tube, clay pot,cave?)

Cheers

[RickE]

I think Larry has much more experience of this than me, but my pH is around 6.3. No spawnings yet, I have no idea what sexes I've got and I think they are all too young apart from the L264's.

[apistomaster]

My L333 have spawned in very soft water with a pH of about 6.0 but they spawn well enough in my tap water which has pH of 7.4 and TDS 340 ppm. I have 7, 3 males and 4 females which spawn as often as once a month or every 2 months. It's hard to know exactly since I don't really know which ones are breeding at any given time. I don't pay very much attention and just notice when I have new fry in their tank. I use rectangular ceramic floor tile caves about 6" long and just large enough for 2 to squeeze inside.
They breed year around unlike the seasonal cycles I have seen with my L134 which spawn from March 1st to Sept. 1st and my L260 seem to spawn best between November and February. I don't know how that compares to the experience of others.
I have my best results with the latter 2 species using very soft water. The pH doesn't seem to be as important as long as it is close to 7.0 or lower.

[Shane]

I recommend that you keep your Discus at 84 to86*F. Less than 84 is not good for discus.

Larry,
Just out of curiosity since I am not a Discus person... why such high temps? I know that high temps are recommended in the aquarium literature but I can assure you that Amazon Discus live side by side with with 100s of other common aquarium fishes that we do not recommend high temps for. Are the high temps assuming that the fish are "fancy" Discus from Asia? I always assumed the inbred fancy Discus from breeders are the fish quoted in the literature as needing such special, specific conditions. I have seen plenty of wild caught Colombian Discus plopped into community tanks where they grow huge.

-Shane

[apistomaster]

Hi Shane,

I can only say that that is the temperature range I have always kept and bred both wild and domestic discus and that if you read Bleher's Discus Vol.1 he recorded field data including the temperatures and most of the temperatures were in the mid to high 80's.
I guess I could add that I began breeding wild discus in 1969 and I continue to do what has always worked for me and those I have advised on their way to becoming discus breeders in their own right.
There is no difference in the optimum temperature ranges for wild or domestics.

[Richard B]

Whatever the decision, if more than one species is kept, i would go for things that cannot hybridise

[fishy knickers]

So- to cut a long story short......Would I be able to keep all three types together in my 6x2x2...at pH6 at around 84/85 degrees? (6 bristlenose,3 L333's, 6small juvie L66 and a 5" L14?? Would any of these be likely to hybridize when mature?

Thanks

[Borbi]

Hi,

Would any of these be likely to hybridize when mature?

Yap - our present knowledge suggests that all Hypancistrus can interbreed freely among "species" (L-Numbers), and likely would do so (even if the other sex of the same "species" is around).

So I would strongly suggest to focus on a single "species" of Hypancistrus.

Cheers, Sandor

[Richard B]

As above, hyps have been shown to hybridise in the confines of aquaria - there are pics of L260 x L46 in a thread somewhere - probably others too if you search enough.

[apistomaster]

I would consider going with one of your Hypancistrus species and Peckoltia L134. The L134 are one of the prettiests of the small plecos, love warm water and would not hybridize with any Hypancistrus.
The Hypancistrus spp you have come from the lower Rio Xingu where Symphysodon haraldi(Blue-Brown Discus) are also found. Not necessarily in the exact same places but in water of similar temperatures.

I have never kept any L14's but any pleco that grows as large as they do would make me think twice about keeping them with Discus. I have never seen any Hypancistrus or the L134 bother Discus. I have them in with all my Discus. I presently have wild Alenquers, Stendker Brilliant Turquoise and have 12 F1 Royal Blue Discus coming next month.
I have L134, L260 and H. zebra in with Discus. I have also kept L333, L66 and L201 in with 10 Heckel Discus without any problems.

[jeff@zina.com]

Personally, I'd mix L-134 and a variety of bristlenose, it's a decent combination as a cleaning crew and neither grow large enough to be a major issue with discus. I love L-134's, but they do nothing for the algae, and that's where the BN's come in.

Jeff

[fishy knickers]

I need to know which is the best combination of fish that I already have...which are....1x5" L14, a breeding pair of L333, a juvie L333, 6x 1.5" L66, 3 pairs of bristlenose (1 pair is regularly spawning).

Cheers all.

[lethalcustoms00]

Just speakin from experience. I have two violet discus and 4 angels ina tank together with a royal pleco l190 an they do fine together withno problems so far. there i a largepice ofdriftwoo th pleco enjoys,the temp is 85 f an i use ro water

[apistomaster]

I need to know which is the best combination of fish that I already have...which are....1x5" L14, a breeding pair of L333, a juvie L333, 6x 1.5" L66, 3 pairs of bristlenose (1 pair is regularly spawning).

Cheers all.

I would grow your 6 young L66 out in your Discus tank. The will need about a couple more years before they are old enough to breed but I wouldn't add the pair of L333. I would set the breeding pair of L333 up in their own 15 or 20 gal Long tank along with Cherry Shrimp. You can raise a ton of Cherry Shrimp to share or sell and still breed the L333.
The Bushy Noses could all go in the Discus tank but you really only need 2 for basic algae eating purposes. It won't hurt to keep all the Bushy Noses together with the Discus and L66 if that works best for you.
Adult Discus do eat pleco fry. I know from personal experience. I have some albino and normal looking but albino recessive heterozygous bushy noses regularly spawning in a Discus tank and the Discus eat every last one of about 50 fry in 3 days. The fry last long enough for you to rescue any you might want to raise.