water chem and options

[bcb]

I am hoping to get some solid info to set me in the right direction. I just recently purchased a fix-it-uper house. Its a little older. The cool thing is that it has had some moderen updates such as city water. However the well pump and access is still there and looks to be very workable, all be it updated. The house is very close to a lake. I assume the well is filled with the lake water. The lake itself is a private lake so I feel it may be on the cleaner side, who knows being all the polloutents out there. Hope so!!! I am going to make every attempt to use the well water for my tanks and the city for personal use. Will save me some $ with all my tanks and water changes! What percautions do I need to take to make sure I am not introducing harmful things to my tanks? I'm pretty sure well water is in more of a natural state than city because they are not treating with the numerous chemicals. Being the water is most likely coming from the lake I want to make sure I am bringing in no disease or parasites. Can I condition the water with a filter hook-up on the outlet of the well pump? How much if any do I need to treat the water? Will well water give me more of a natural pH of 7-7.5? How much of a affect will the well itself have on the water? I'm no water wizard in terms of chemistry but if you could cover the bases so I can get a sweet hook up I will be forever thankful!
My second question is one that I am hoping I can pull off. The layout of the basement, after my fish room is put in, will definitley allow for a auto-change drip system. My thing is getting the right advice and knowledge to pull it off hassle and problem free. I want to set it up on a irrigation timer and run tubing to each tank individually. I really don't want to drill any of my tanks. Or is drilling the best way to go. I live in Michigan the winters get cold. So if I can accomplish this do I have a holding reservoir to heat and condition water? If ya got the time to get me up to speed I, as well as my fish, will be very appreciative. The time this will save me-on water changes- but more importantly the arguements from my wife about how much time I spend with my fish will change my life. LOL It will allow me to get more tanks, hopfully-wife approved, because I will only spend a fraction of the time on them. As fast as I try to be on the water changes I always end up taking my sweet old time. The funny thing is I told her I had my fish before I had her so they aren't going anywhere. You all can guess what I got in return. LOL Well any help will be awesome. Just a side note; the drip system won't be right away as the house is about 4 months away from moving in. Just want to get things in order so I know what I'm up against and hear different opinons. This will be a thread that will get up dated. As much as I think I know, you guys know way,way,way more on here than me.

[MatsP]

Can't really say much about the water in your well, and the quality of it. I'd suggest you find someone who can analyze the water properly. You may also want to check for water-bourne parasites that may attack your fish.

I have drilled my tanks to automate water changes, but there are some other solutions. I think Apistomaster had a solution that required no drilling.

I use waste-water from the RO system to keep the less sensitive fishes in fresh water. They get about 4 times the volume of the tank replaced each week.

Other fish are being filled up with RO water passed through coral sand, so that the water is low on nitrate but has sufficient KH.

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Mats

[naturalart]

Hi bcb, I have run my 100 gallon and a few other tanks on well water, for about 3 yrs. without incident. I have since moved from that location. As MatsP said you might want to get the water thorougly tested. I didn't do it but I did check for kh and gh which were fine. The ph ran about 7.1 and there was alot of iron. The strata your water sits in has alot to do with the character of the water you will get. If you keeping sensitive fish I would definitely test the water thoroughly.

Maybe do some historical research on the lake. Was there any major industry in the area?

If the area is highly populated I would be wary.

And run your well after heavy rains to see what happens.

Good luck

[MatsP]

Lets make this much clear: a well is nothing magical. It is better to drink from a well than surface water because of the filtration effect of running through the ground - the other reason to a have a well is that it's not always easy to find surface water near to the house unless you live by a bigger river/lake. However, well water is not guaranteed to be free of pathogens (bacteria, parasites, etc).

But the quality of the water is highly dependant on what the water has to pass through. If your well is in a chalky area, then the pH, GH & KH will most likely be high. If you live in the everglades (swampy area), then your water will be low pH, GH & KH. Various minerals may also get introduced from the ground around the well - iron being one of the more common ones, but all sorts of minerals MAY get into your water.

As stated, industrial and agricultural work around the water can also affect it.

My tap-water is hard and high in nitrates (about 30ppm nitrate). It is certainly not great for South American fish to go directly in the tank. I filter via an RO unit for that reason. You can obviously do that with well-water too, if you have sufficient amount of well water. It will remove roughly 95% of all the minerals and organic matter that may be in the water. Just make sure you have decent pressure on the pump.

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Mats

[bcb]

Thank you guys for the reply. By having it thoroughly tested is that something I can do with an at home kit or take it to the lfs. The kit I have is basically what any lfs would do. What is the most important? I mean I could never exactly replicate natural water and enviroment unless I hit it big with money, ha never. As far as a RO unit, if I hooked it up on the well outlet would it strip most of the elements out of the water or just mix with the well water itself diluting it to a certain point? Its something I thought about but haven't read much on because I haven't been presented with the opportunity. The neighborhood itself use to be a summer get away for families that over time became built up and populated. Like I said its short walk to the lake so I'm sure its majority lake water. The only business that I feel would contribute to water contaminates is a small airport nearby, I know horrible. The city water is not the best for fish and usually hard. However, I have a 75gallon pleco tank(10 count) with 20 rumynose tetra, 2 oil cats, good amount of live plants that has done considerably good for about 2 1/2 yrs. 75gallon cichlid tank with 12 syndontis perticola-lup? Pretty sure its a 3/4 mix with lup being the majority. The catfish are laying eggs but are getting eatin. I also have a 5inch fahaka puffer that is doing awesome, just got him a used 180gallon to go into when we make the move. We are trying to make the move as soon as possible because we have a baby and we need the space. Or what might save you guys or gals an annoyance is hooking me up with a link or website that we put me in check with all I need to cover.
Thank you guys. I have visited this site forever but joined only a short time ago. I have learned so much from here that I feel its made me a better fish keeper for sure!

[MatsP]

Doing tests of nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, KH, GH and pH would be a start. Drop tests are generally better than the paper strip tests. To be ABSOLUTE sure, you would want a FULL water test from a chemical lab, that would look for all sorts of further things - arsenik, lead, pesticides, and all sorts of other things.

Why is your tap-water unsuitable for fish? Is it simply hard, or is there something else that is bas as well.

Hard water in itself is not that bad, as long as the fish are well acclimatised to the water.

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Mats

[bcb]

Well I guess its not really that bad it just has a pH of like 8.3. I was buying RO water to mix with the tap but thats out the window because I had a baby. My reason for the interest and Q's about well water is that it will be remarkably cheaper than what is charged for city use. I pay every quarter for water and since I have had 5 tanks up and running the bill has went up $45us. Thats doing a 50% water change on two 75s, two 35s and a 10gallon once a week. I relish the fact that the low price for well water will allow me to do much more frequent water changes giving me maximime health and growth. The big thing I am after is setting up the automatic water change drip system. Having that will allow me to have continous, fresh, clean water at a higher turnover rate than once a week. I am trying to achieve a more natural setting in terms of quality water at a daily rate. I was thinking of a 10-15% turnover to be reasonable? Plus with the supply of clean,cheap water and all the time saved on water changes it will allow for more(or bigger) tanks and a responsible go at more sensitve harder to keep species. To be honest I am really looking forward to sharing this hobby with my son, who is 1, and already into fish. The time I save, aside from routine maintaince, will give me so much more time to spend and educate him, not only on fish but life itself. MatsP I know your the man and you know your stuff from all the time I have spent on this site. I don't want to be bothersom. So if you got a good link or website that would probably save you a lot of time. That way I could read and educate myself instead of asking you a million-and-one Q's. I'm sure you got better things to do. Like I said I'm really after the auto-change drip system so if anybodys got a good link to give me with a decent format to work off and tweak it to my needs I will be very thankful. First things first- get the water tested to see what I'm working with.
Many thanks to all who offer their help and knowledge.

[Birger]

A simple thing is to stay within the parameters you already have provided...it saves a lot of work of trying to match water conditions.

Your water would be great for working with Central American fish or also fish from the rift lakes of Africa...but not so great for west African or many of the Amazonian fish.

If plecos are wanted you could keep fish from the Rio Ucayali

So all I am saying that a bit of research could save you a lot of trying to match water conditions and still leaves you with many many choices.

Birger

[naturalart]

You could try googling Automatic water changing system or some other words to that effect. You may be surprised at what you find. As you may already know there are hundreds of sites out there concerning water maintenance/treatment for tropical fish. You could also incorporate a uv unit in your system. As a simple test you could also run some well water in your 'Q' tank with some simple goldfish for a few weeks-month.

I dont know what kind of time you have with a family to attend to, but it may be worth visiting your local water treatment facility or dept. They are a public utility and are usually open to steering you toward information on how they treat your local water (some facilities give tours). They may even steer you to info on what type of substrate(s) your well is sitting in/percolating through.

Again, studying your natural and human history will put you way ahead of many heartaches.

[MatsP]

One of the problems with automatic water changes from RO water is the fact that the RO water is too soft. So you either need to mix in regular tap-water, or use some other method for that. I have a small tub of coral sand that I'm "filtering" the water through. It is unfortunately not enough... It may be possible to get a BIGGER volume of coral sand or other carbonate rich material to filter water through for the right hardness...

I would think that a replacement rate that reflects around 50% per week should work just fine.

I'm fortunate enough to be on unmetered water, which means I'm paying a set rate per year, no matter how much or little water I use... ;)

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Mats