Tap Water!

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 06 Sep 2005, 09:29

I am considering using untreated tap water to do my water changes and thought I would see how other people viewed this course of action.

The water in my area is very soft, kH < 1 & gH < 1. There is an apparent smell of chlorine in the water at this time of year, but I prepare my water by letting it stand in a container with an air line and a heater for 24 hours anyway. At the moment I use a HMA filter.

To make sure that the water contains nothing really nasty I have contacted my local water company and asked them to send me a detailed rundown of the composition of my water:-

Hardness level = very soft
Hardness Clarkeâ??s = 1.575 Â° Clarke
Hardness = 9 mg Ca/l
Aluminium = 33.9 Âµg Al/l
Calcium = 8.29 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - total = 0.50 mg/l
Residual chlorine - free < 0.42 mg/l
Coliform bacteria = 0 number/100ml
Colour < 1.30 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity = 83.4 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper = 0.0091 mg Cu/l
E.coli = 0 number/100ml
Iron < 7.31 Âµg Fe/l
Lead < 1.50 Âµg Pb/l
Magnesium = 0.683 mg Mg/l
Manganese = 0.867 Âµg Mn/l
Nitrate = 1.16 mg NO3/l
Sodium = 4.94 mg Na/l

That analysis, to me, ain't to bad at all, and apart from the chlorine, I cant see anything that would seriously affect the fish (If anything the water is in need of some hardness and buffering). But is there anything that would damage the bacteria in the filters?

Also, how do big LFS's treat the amount of water that they need to keep healthy fish at their stocking levels?

The reason for doing it is that I am going through a lot of water (~ 70 litresâ??/day) and the HMA is very slow.

So, should I do it or continue with the HMA.

Cheers

Tom

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 06 Sep 2005, 10:29

Can I go visit you with a tanker lorry... I just wanna buy some water, y'see...

In all seriousness, sounds like pretty good water. Like you say, you may want to add some buffering, but not critical for south american fish... Of course, your water is completely unsuitable for keeping rift-lake cichlids in...

I don't know how ALL shops treat their water, but I know that my local shop uses plain tap-water for all their stock-tanks. They just have a lot better filtration than I do...

Some shops have signs saying something like "All our tanks use RO water", but I'm not sure how closely they actually watch the water quality. Obviously, some shops aren't too careful with their fish anyway, judging by the number of ill and dead fish that are present in their tanks...

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 06 Sep 2005, 11:22

i would just use it straight from the tap adding just dechlorinator.

if you do have pH buffering problems however, you can add a product like kent's pH stable (KH) to rectify this.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 06 Sep 2005, 17:31

I'm glad you got your water tested! Racoll's given you the advice you need. I think you should bottle that stuff and sell it.

Post by **Shane** » 07 Sep 2005, 00:42

I'll take some of that water as well.
It is soft, but not too soft:

Conductivity = 83.4 uS/cm at 20oC

Upper Rio Negro 15 uS/cm
Rio Tefe 15 uS/cm
Rio Arara (near Leticia, Colombia) 10 uS/cm

-Shane

bedwetter · Post by **bedwetter** » 07 Sep 2005, 03:53

regarding the chlorine, I personally never use dechlorinator. Our water is very hard and alkaline, and because of that I keep mostly rift lake cichlids, but I also have several species of corys and a few plecos. The lack of dechlorinator doesn't seem to bother them at all. The only time I worry is when I am dealing with young fry - in that case I just use water from another tank for the water changes for the first few weeks.

metallhd · Post by **metallhd** » 07 Sep 2005, 07:48

bedwetter wrote:regarding the chlorine, I personally never use dechlorinator. . . . but I also have several species of corys and a few pl*cos.

Gee whiz if I did that all my fish would be dead on the first water change except maybe the big tank with enough water in it to buffer out the chlorine over the 20 minutes it would take to dissipate . . . my younger 'newbie' brother did a water change in his 5G with no dechlorinator and watched all his fish die a horrible death as he stood by helpless without it . . . here are my water stats, these from yesterday - the temp is not that of the tank but the city sample

Hardness (mg/L CaCO3) 179
pH (3) 7.70
Temp. Â°C 14.7
Chlorine Residual (mg/L) 1.99
Alkalinity (mg/L) 128
Conductivity (ÂµS/cm) 393
Caustic Soda Dose (mg/L) 16.8

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 07 Sep 2005, 09:25

My understanding is that chlorine will not adversly affect the fish, but the biological filter.

Chlorine is an irritant at such low levels, the same as to you and me (WRT chlorine gas), therefore at the very worst, the fish will flick and look a little pissed off, but the movement of the water and the elevated temperatures in the tank will knock the dissolved gas out of solution quickly enough.

I've heard of people trickling fresh tap water into their tanks, and this allows enough time for the chlorine to dissolute before if damages the filter.

Another question, will the heavy metals cause any long term problems with the fish (such as the lead and brain damage)? I know that heavy metals can build up in the fat cells, but they only tend to concentrate up the food chain, where problem can occur.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Sep 2005, 10:29

You're right, the biggest concern on chlorine is that it kills the "good bacteria" in the filter, which is exactly why it is added to the water in the first place [well, perhaps not to kill good bacteria in filters, but to kill bacteria that lives in the water]. This is why you have 0 count of bacteria per 100ml in your report [which is a good thing].

However, fish do gas exchange with the water, and they do "inhale" chlorine if it's present in the water, and it is an irritant, so it will add stress to the fish too.

Lead is indeed a heavy metal that is poisionous to living creatures. And it's a case of buildup in the food-chain. However, I'd be very surprised if the lead in the water is NOT inorganic compounds. Animals take up very little inorganic lead, but organic compounds are taken up very easily. This is why the lead in petrol was so bad, because not only is it an organic compound when it goes into the engine, but the chances are that it will to some extent bond with organic "free radicals" in the engine during the combustion phase and end up being an organic lead-compound when it comes out. Lead in metallic form and inorganic compounds (salts or oxides) are relatively harmless in comparison.

The allowed level of Lead in tap water is 25 ug/l until Dec. 2013, where it changes to 10 ug/l. So you're at about 15% of the lower level.

--
Mats

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 07 Sep 2005, 13:29

MatsP wrote:I'd be very surprised if the lead in the water is NOT inorganic compounds. Animals take up very little inorganic lead, but organic compounds are taken up very easily. This is why the lead in petrol was so bad, because not only is it an organic compound when it goes into the engine, but the chances are that it will to some extent bond with organic "free radicals" in the engine during the combustion phase and end up being an organic lead-compound when it comes out. Lead in metallic form and inorganic compounds (salts or oxides) are relatively harmless in comparison.

--
Mats

Are you a fellow Scientist?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Sep 2005, 13:38

Depends on what you mean by "scientist". No I don't work at or study in a university or do any form of research.

I studied chemistry some twenty or so years back, and I've still got an interest in chemistry.

I work with computers as a "Senior Systems Platform Engineer" [try saying that after a few beers...

]

--
Mats

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 07 Sep 2005, 13:56

MatsP wrote:Depends on what you mean by "scientist". No I don't work at or study in a university or do any form of research.

I studied chemistry some twenty or so years back, and I've still got an interest in chemistry.

I work with computers as a "Senior Systems Platform Engineer" [try saying that after a few beers... ]

--
Mats

That may be where Im going wrong! I studied chemistry and qualified 4 years ago, since then Ive worked as a chemist, and it bore's me. My knowlege of chemistry is dwindling as I make the things, and have very little to do with the theory anymore.

So I need to come out of chemicals, and maybe my interest will return

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 07 Sep 2005, 15:13

From what I understand, the key thing with dechlorinators is that there should be no additional additives such as aloe vera, etc. There are a few products out there that are true dechlorinators, but it's quite a thing to either read the label in the local fish store or to go to the manufacturer's web site to check out the additives, if they post them at all. I guess there are a lot of products out there that do many things at once, such as "de-stress" and "balance your water" without saying how or why. I've found it rather confusing to find a plain dechlorinator.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 07 Sep 2005, 15:39

From what I understand, the key thing with dechlorinators is that there should be no additional additives such as aloe vera, etc.

What is wrong with these additives?

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 07 Sep 2005, 15:54

From what I understand, aloe vera doesn't dissolve in water and needs to be siphoned out with a water change. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 07 Sep 2005, 16:15

i used to use a tapwater conditioner before i got an RO unit, which i think had aloe vera in it. i didn't notice any kind of layer on the surface though.

i used Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "stress coat"

i would think that it's perhaps unecessary, but why would it be a problem though?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Sep 2005, 16:20

bronzefry wrote:From what I understand, aloe vera doesn't dissolve in water and needs to be siphoned out with a water change. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, so let's see if we can make something clear here:
Aloe Vera is a plant. It contains a lot of things, some of which are wate soluble, and some are not.

I'm using Stress coat, which writes on the bottle that it contains "Extract from Aloe Vera", in my tanks, and I have so far not noticed any bad effects from it. I've used a pint (US => 453 ml metric) bottle in the first five-six months of having my 400 L tank, and about another half a bottle by now... [I obviously use the same bottle on the other three tanks + the tank I inherited from my father-in-law, so not all of that went into one tank.]

--
Mats