Diasternum magdalenae or punctatum?

[Phoxinus]

Hi

Do you recognize if this species is Diasternum (Hoplosternum) madgalenae or D. punctatum? It was sold as Dianema longibarbis.

Thank you
Phoxinus

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... va1mg2.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... va2ez9.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... tiidb6.jpg

[MatsP]

Not sure, but:

Dianema longibarbis

looks pretty close.

--
Mats

[Silurus]

The dorsal spine looks to be too long for Hoplosternum.

[Carp37]

The overall head shape seems more consistent with Dianema than Hoplosternum in my opinion. Most of the pictures in the CateLog seem to be of young fish, based on the eye size, which makes comparison with that species a bit more awkward.

[Richard B]

Hmmm, doesn't obviously cry out with obvious id points D.Longibarbis looks close - maybe forum member hoplo will pass comment as she seems to be the best bet with her knowledge

[Phoxinus]

They look like Hoplosternum sp. IV in the book Aqualog: All Corydoras (page 121 & 122) and punctatum in this link:
http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Photos/Pic ... at=species

[Marc van Arc]

I'd go for Hoplosternum punctatum as well, but where on earth did you dig up the name Diasternum?
It's mentioned in some very old threads over here, but afaik never made it scientifically as it's not found in any synonym.

[sidguppy]

These are hoplosternum punctatum

I've bred this species; from WC to F1 and from F1 to F2
currently the last ones of both batches are kept by my friend, Patrick.

see also the pix in the catelog wich are made from the ones in his tank and from my breeding efforts

Hoplosternum punctatum can be separated from Dianema longibarbis by the following characteristics:
H punctatum has smaller eyes and the eye is just a little above the exact center of the side, see HERE; D longibarbis has large eyes wich are placed exactly on the sides, sometimes even a bit on the lower half. see HERE and HERE

In adults differences in bodyshape and armor are easier to spot; the pectoral shields in Hoplosternum punctatum leave a space in the center (females) or overlap (males), but in Dianema these are closely fitted together.

the background color of H punctatum tends to be brownish, it never is in Dianema wich is a strictly grey fish. H punctatum has many more spots, smaller and bigger ones.
it also is much bulkier, especially when adult.

Dianema has 4 points on the lower lip, 2 on each side; Hoplosternum lacks these. see also HERE for a nice frontal view of Dianema's mouth and lip

[Marc van Arc]

These are hoplosternum punctatum.
I've bred this species; from WC to F1 and from F1 to F2

Yeah, I thought it had to be them. Long time ago and sold under the name Hoplosternum shirui, right?

[MatsP]

Sidguppy! Thanks for that clarification. I have edited that into the respective pages of the two species in question here.

--
Mats

[Phoxinus]

I'd go for Hoplosternum punctatum as well, but where on earth did you dig up the name Diasternum?
It's mentioned in some very old threads over here, but afaik never made it scientifically as it's not found in any synonym.

There are two species of Diasternum in the catalog of fish names named "Maailman kalojen nimet (ISBN9519108130)" published in my country in 2004. Hoplosternum littorale is the only species left in the genus Hoplosternum.

Thank you all for the answers.

[MatsP]

Seems like one of those names that never really got accepted elsewhere... ;)

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

Marc, spot on; these are indeed what we've named "Hoplosternum shrui/shiuri" for a long time.
I got a paper from HH here wich describes Hoplosternum punctatum (and all the other Hoplosternums and related species) and it's a perfect match.

Mats, i'll dig tthru my pix archive, I believe I have more pics of baby punctatums.
not that they are that good, but they're there, proof of the breeding.

I also have a little movie of them, but it's on an old VHS tape and I lack the machinery or the knowledge to turn something from a magnetic tape to some digital file i can hassle with on my computer......

might be interesting for the catelog, but you have to judge that.

can I send em to Jools or anyone else with catelog-edit secret mod superpowers?

btw you might want to change "breeding unreported" to "bred in captivity" mind

[Marc van Arc]

There are two species of Diasternum in the catalog of fish names named "Maailman kalojen nimet (ISBN9519108130)" published in my country in 2004. Hoplosternum littorale is the only species left in the genus Hoplosternum.

The Checklist by Ferraris (2007) does list Diasternum (Franz, 2001), but it sits in the same league as Cascadura and Ellisichthys for instance, which are proposed genus names that didn't make it for different reasons.
The Checklist still lists 3 Hoplosternum spp: littorale, magdalenae and punctatum.

However, if you'd like to call them Diasternum, who am I to say you shouldn't?

With regard to Finnish: a very difficult language. I have some carbrochures in Finnish and I'm certainly happy there are pictures in them for that's about the only thing I can understand

[Phoxinus]

With regard to Finnish: a very difficult language. I have some carbrochures in Finnish and I'm certainly happy there are pictures in them for that's about the only thing I can understand

Right.

These fishes are kept by my colleague and they spawned 22nd October. Would you have some good tips for raising the fry? He has an aquarium of sixty liters for the fry. The eggs are in the main tank (450l) in a hatchery with an aeration.

http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... tuajo9.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... laslp8.jpg

[sidguppy]

Add a wee bit of acryflavine, just as much to color the water.
this is to avoid fungus.

also you can add a few Melanoides tuberculata aka Trumpetsnail, butrrowing snail, Malaysian snail. these eat carrion and eat unferyilized eggs and dead fry.

lots of aeriation is needed, you need to change 50% of the water every day (!) and replace it with tankwater

once they hatch, add a wee tiny nylon panty with carbon to get rid of the chemicals


now you wait 3 days until the young start swimming. if you feed too soon the whole batch will die.

feed them freshly hatched artemia larvae, micro worms (tricky, cause this stuff pollutes) and finely chopped-up tubifex.

[Phoxinus]

Thanks.

[MatsP]

can I send em to Jools or anyone else with catelog-edit secret mod superpowers?

btw you might want to change "breeding unreported" to "bred in captivity" mind

Pictures to Jools - as far as I know, there's no-one else that can update the Cat-eLog with regards to pictures, species/genus/family etc. Just about everything else can be done by me, Marc or any of the other 20 or so Cat-eLog Data Team members.

--
Mats

[Phoxinus]

My colleague has so far managed to raise seven punctatums, but once they have started to spawn, they have done it many times and nothing seems to stop them spawning..

Here is a short youtube video of the punctatum reproduction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiVuRtqao0