Help with Corys dying

[CoryfanAad]

Thanks. I'll see how he does. A few on another forum are telling me they'd euthanise him. I'm going to see how he does a bit longer before taking that step.

i was one of those. Have had the problems with my Salt and Pepper Corys which all died sooner or later. I don't like to see them suffer !!

[sonicboom81]

I'm going to wait until the morning, but no, he's not doing well. He's not eating, and not moving about as much and just on his side. Last night he was mostly the right way up, but I guess because he's not eating he's no energy anymore to get himself back up. I'm thinking he'll probably die.

If I want to help him on his way, what's the best way?

[Corycory]

Presuming the internal bacterial meds are not working on what the cory has, then logically one may try antiparasitic meds as a last resort.
Have you seen any scratching/flashing from your fish or this cory? Something of the sort of Waterlife octozin or sterazin may help, both are treating different types of parasites.
Also see the post by Mike Noren in the following topic in regards to salt and corys:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... t+salinity

As for killing the cory. I've heard clove oil overdose or placing plenty ice cubes in the container with the cory(without touching the cory itself with the cubes) in order to cause a temperature shock which can kill the fish pretty quickly within seconds/a minute. These are some of the methods that maybe the least painful.

[sonicboom81]

He's the same this morning. Pretty much has been the same over the last week, and has even been worse if you'd consider floating upside down worse than floating onto his side.

Just now, he's on his side. Moves about a little on his side, and if he puts in effort he can right himself and stay there on the bottom the right way up. When he starts to swim he often ends up on his side. I'm not sure if he's eating - I can't tell. The corys have never really eaten their food when people are about - they've been very shy, possibly because they are in such a small number now - they'd often hide or just stay still. I know they are more active at night.

I kind of feel that even with his buoyancy issue, if he was able to right himself more easily and stay the right way around, he might be able to feed himself better. In the main tank he was able to lodge himself the right way up, and I'd see him swimming about to different spots until he found a bit that would support himself better (on uneven gravel, in amongst a plant, etc). The reason why I moved him from the main tank to the hospital tank was to reduce water levels, because he'd had an episode of being much more upside down, and to give salt and medication treatment.

I don't know how long a fish can go for without food, but he's had these issues for about 10 days.

I can't say the salt treatment has improved things, but at least is would likely have been beneficial in clearing some of bacteria/fungus/parasites. The anti-bacterial medication doesn't seem to have done anything so far. Thanks for the link to the thread about corys and salt

There's been no scratching or flashing, and I can't see any obvious indications of parasites. Though an indication that something is wrong with this fish or the environment has been that he has grown very slowly, and is no way near as big as his brother or other melini corys in the fish shop. I don't know if he would be smaller because he is male or so on, or if it's because he hasn't been a big eater. It's just an indication that he might not have been as a healthy a fish over the months.

I feel it's still to early to call it a day, as the only issue I see is that he lies on his side, and struggles to get the right way up, although he can if he wants to. It might be that he finds it easier to just stay on his side. I don't know how stressful that would be for him though.

Still no obvious signs of neurological issues, ignoring the buoyancy issues.

I could try anti-parasitic meds, but I should probably keep going with this course of anti-bacterial just now. I'd think that if it was parasitic, it would be internal parasites of some sort.

I have old gravel in an old tank that used to house an albino channel catfish until Tuesday this week when he went to his new home, or I could buy some sand, but I almost feel that if I sculpted some sand in the tank that he might be able to right himself better. Then again, would there be a concern that either putting substrate in would stress him out more, or even that if he was lying on his side that sand would get in his gills and cause problems?

[Corycory]

Corys should not be kept in bare bottom because the biofilm that develops is harmful to them. Something for him to even try to hide around would reduce stress as well. Even the move to a different container all alone can increase stress to a level when a weak fish can't cope anymore. If you have plants, I'd try stuff the container with plants so he can use them to hold himself in between and feel safer. If the meds are not working on the 2nd-3rd day then they more likely won't work.
Also, just because it says for "internal bacteria" it doesn't mean it actually treats all possible internal bacterial issues.
If he's been sickly for a long time, it's not that likely that the issue is bacterial because he'd be dead in shorter time. But bacterial issues can be secondary. Parasites don't kill the host that fast.
Or he may have permanent damage from nitrites exposure or regular osmotic shocks.

[sonicboom81]

I'll give him sand, previously used bogwood and some plants today. I'll look into a parasitic medication

[sonicboom81]

Okay, trying to look at this again, as he’s still alive and the same.

Tank:
(From new API kits)
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates 10 ppm
pH 7.0
GH 3
KH 4
26C

Symptoms:
Laying on his side, and difficulty righting himself, but can do so, but spending more time lying on his side than upright. When upright seems to easily float over.
Probably not eating.
Faster breathing.
Definitely, pinkish underneath his head mouth on his underside - I imagine this isn’t normal, but have not seen under a healthy cory recently to compare.
Redish looking in his gills. I thought maybe he didn’t before, but on a closer look I’d say he does.
Episodes of coughing and quick rapid breathing, as if he is irritated by something.
May be a bit twitchy, but this might be his attempts to get upright when lying on his side.

Other things to say are that the pH went lower than 6.0 recently, and there may have been ammonia spikes in the past. It’s a small tank and not the best water flow though a large filter (AquaNano 30 - 22 litre capacity), although an air stone helps with the flow. He’s still got all his colour, though slim for a cory, and all fins sticking out and not clamped. No obvious neurological signs other than balance.


Previous treatment:
Salt at about half the recommended max dose - dosed less due to reading about corys possibly being sensitive to salt.
Interpret anti-bacterial medications containing, bronopol, formaldehyde, benzalkonium chloride (started with Interpret Anti-Internal Bacteria, then went to Interpret Swim Bladder Treatment as a second dose - same ingredients, but the swim bladder treatment has double the dose).

Considering parasitic treatments, but no obvious signs of external or internal parasites - abdomen looks normal, and have not seen him poo.

Surely a factor must be his reddish gills, rapid breathing and coughing. Any other suggestions on treatment based on these symptoms? There’s the swim bladder symptoms of course. I’m wondering if he is hypoxic due to whatever is affecting him and this in turn could be affecting his balance. Probably not, but really wracking my brains on this one. It’s frustrating as I don’t know what the disease is, and I don’t want to euthanise him (he’s not even my fish, I’m just looking after him) without covering all avenues first.

If I go for a anti-parasitic med, I live in the UK, so some products are limited.

If he’s in osmotic shock, or has had damage caused by this, or by ammonia or nitrite spikes in the past, is there anything that can help him other than ensuring my tank water quality is as good as it can be?

[Corycory]

How is the cory doing?

[sonicboom81]

I've been offline the last month with moving house so here's the update.

I went for Sterazin to treat gill flukes and internal worms - there may have been an indication of gill flukes, but wasn't 100% sure. During the 10 day course he stopped 'coughing', his rapid breathing decreased, and around day 7 he started to be more upright. By the end of the course he was full recovered. He now lives along with a group of his own kind of cory in a community tank and is doing very well.

[Corycory]

This is such great news Well done. Tough cory too