L46 in comunity tank

[solvent123]

hello, i decided i would get rid of my group of l134's.

i got 2 l46's! captive bred, around 18months old.

they are in a comunity tank, with 16 gold lasers corydoras, female and male cockatoo, and few wild guppy, and a little red bristolnose, and lots and lots of shrimp!
when geting food for the l134's it was easy, as they come out when the lights are off! with the l046 they stay in the same place night and day. i dont want to leave lots of food in the tank over nite! but i have not seen the l46's eat at all.

anybody has experiances with theese and feeding them when they are in comunity tank?

[Barbie]

It's my experience that H. zebra are happiest when kept warmer than most of your fish are going to appreciate. They also like to be+++ where they don't have to actively compete for their food with a lot of other bottom dwellers. Creating a few tile sandwiches would give them places they liked to hide. Maybe you could then drop food next to it to get them to eat. I'm not at all sure this will work though. Good luck!

Barbie

[solvent123]

yes my tank is set up for them, i have got beach pebels and rocks covering the whole tank, and caves. i have a open circle in the middle of the tank for feeding area! i went and brought myself some flake today. my fish shop said, if they are hungry they wil come out and eat, reguardless what fish are around.

tank temp is 28.8 celcius

[Matt30]

Hi solvent123

Contrary to what your LFS has said regarding Hzebra coming out to eat regardless of other fish,be careful ! one of the reasons people keep these fish in species only tanks is that they have nasty habit of starving themselves to death rather than trying to competing for food.

Re leaving food out over night, do it why not ? how else are you going to feed your fish if they are primary nocturnal Try foods such as Blood worm/Brine shrimp/De shelled Pea's /Tetra Prima
What Flake food are you using?

[TwoTankAmin]

Very few zebra keepers keep them in community tanks for all the reasons listed above and more. Nothing like putting an inexpensive fish like a zebra pleco in a tank with those really costly and hard to get cories, guppies, bn and cockatoos. I mean who would want to risk having a zebra give an illness to those other fish. Obviosuly I am trying to make a point here

The closest I have come to keeping zebras in a community setting was when I parked a couple of zebras in a tank with a pair of discus for about 2 years.

[solvent123]

i got some flake, i used to use tetra energy. but my local shop gave me a bucket of what they use, not sure the the name i wil find out. for time being i have moved the filter flow, so the food drop right out side his cav, im not sure where my second one is hiding atm.

with leaving the food over night, i had 9 l134's and i only wud feed after the lights have gone out, as they only come out at night.
i staerted to feed twise a day, instead of large amount at night time.

the corydoras i have in there are not a problem, its the cockatoo what attack anything and everything!

when i get some adult zebra's i wil probly just have them in the tank, and a little bristole nose, swaping him for smaller ones every 4 months

[Matt30]

i got some flake, i used to use tetra energy. but my local shop gave me a bucket of what they use, not sure the the name i wil find out. for time being i have moved the filter flow, so the food drop right out side his cav, im not sure where my second one is hiding atm.

with leaving the food over night, i had 9 l134's and i only wud feed after the lights have gone out, as they only come out at night.
i staerted to feed twise a day, instead of large amount at night time.

the corydoras i have in there are not a problem, its the cockatoo what attack anything and everything!


when i get some adult zebra's i wil probly just have them in the tank, and a little bristole nose, swaping him for smaller ones every 4 months

To be totally honest,and this is just my opinion but I would remove Cockatoo and Bristlenose now,why would you risk keeping these fish together as you said the Cockatoo Cichlid's are aggressive fish and the Bristlenose can be a pain regarding hoarding food etc and just remember every four months you are adding the risk of infections ans disease to your tank with your expensive fish in, bad idea fella as TwoTankAmin as already pointed out.
I do understand you wanting to keep a Bristlenose in the tank so you actuary get to see something moving about in the day , look if you insist on having some tank mates which in my opinion is bonkers regarding Hzebra, then get something like Corydora Sterbai.
I would forget trying to feed in the day time, just stick with feeding at night and I would start having some variety in there diet, not just Flake.


Good luck

[vanillarum]

Well I will be the "other" side of the argument. I have just moved 4 adult male zebras into my community tank. The reason I did this was there were 7 males and 4 females in the zebra colony tank. The other 2 reasons are 1. I can not add another tank for the extra zebras, and 2, all my other tanks have hypancistrus colonies in them. So not a lot of options. I will add that the community tank has community fish, nothing aggressive, in it. And I bet if we ran a poll, there are tons of fish keepers that keep zebras in their community tank. I know of about 1/2 a dozen, one of whom has had fry be born and survive. Not my first choice, but I think with a little extra effort, it will work out fine. So good luck to the OP. And if anyone is interested, I have 4 adult male zebras available for sale. Just my .02 cents worth. Thanx.

[solvent123]

i keep the bristolnose in my tank, to clean the algue, its only a inch, and when it gets to 2 inch, i go and swap for a smaller one.

for the risk of disease with new fish, all i can say is the fish shop i go to, its one of the best in the country, if not the best! i have never had a fish of poor health, but the risk is still there!

i will be geting some more zebras before christmas, so i will remover the cockatoo's, they are agresive, they make angle fish look friendly :O

Sol

[SilverDub]

I'm not a big fan of keeping fish in isolated species tanks, its just not natural. I have 10 good sized H Zebra in a 350ltr tank. They live very happily with a selection of fish (warning some may disagree with this list)
1 Liposarcus Punctatus, 1 L191, 1 P Armbrusteri Xingu, 2 B Xanthellus, 1 S Aureatus, 2f Ancistrus Sp. L100 Xingu, 3 Silver Dollars, 3 Red Hook Metynis, 12 Hypessobrycon Filamentosum and 4 Dicrossus Maculatus.

I dont feed a heavily protein rich so the veggies in there don't suffer from ver exposure to protiens. I use JBL Tangyanikan flake (which the zebs love), NLS Spectrum Cichlid Formula (2 granule sizes) & Thera+ A, KB Wafers, Hikari floating pellet to fill the Metynis up before feeding the sinking pellet. I also feed courgette, peas, cucumber skinned broad beans and occassionally some live meal worms for the characins.

My L46, L18, L14 & L100 all live in and under a huge 48" x 15" 40kgs pile of slate and there behaviour under these rocks is evidential. There is always a lot of feeding activity from all my fish at feeding time (also the rocks trap food and debris) I often watch for an hour after lights out with a few small LEDs for moonlight and the Zebs become very active at this time. In the wild L46 lives with a lot of big bristly plecos for competition.

This current tank is soon to be broken down and will be replaced by a 410ltr Rio Xingu 'Volte Grande/Altamira Rapids' true biotope. My aim is to keep species in this Xingu biotope that live together side by side in the wild Loricadae, Characins, Cichlidae, Auchenipterdae I'm even considering placing a controlable small predator into the mix. I am very keen to witness natural behaviour and pay tribute to this region that will soon be irreversably damaged. I am also keen to learn so if anyone can offer species advice I would be very pleased.

To summarise H Zebra is fine in a mixed community set up. Keep us posted on there development.

[Matt30]

Hi SilverDub

Re keeping a species only tank not being natural,yes you are right but you need to remember that Hzebra are shy and do not socialize well with many other fish,they are Pack animals like wolf's they live in there own communities happily without any other outside influences,I think you will find there behaviour a lot more natural in this environment rather than adding huge aggressive Panaque in a confined space with them (overstocked, badly set up tank in my opinion.

"I'm even considering placing a controlable small predator into the mix". -could you elaborate on this

[racoll]

There's always anecdotal evidence that H. zebra can be kept in a mixed community. However, given the facts that (a) they are probably going to be extinct in the wild a couple of years; and (b) that they cost a small fortune, I would say that it's very wise to minimise the risks when keeping them.

This means ensuring they are well fed, not stressed, and not exposed to diseases. There's always a huge risk when introducing a new fish to an aquarium, no matter how good you think your LFS is. Just because a fish isn't showing symptoms, doesn't mean it isn't carrying something!

I'd have to agree with the other posters that you'd be mad not to be as careful as possible with these very valuable fish.

[SilverDub]

My Zebs are all 100% spot on in the community, they out number all other species plec species massively (so theres the pack) all the research I have done into this project has led me to Zebras not living in solitary groups of H Zebra, they commonly share there crevices with other species and many are much bigger then they are, if they are out sized they scarper pretty quick (I have seen this behaviour first hand in my set up)the only damage I have seen is wehn one of the males beat up a smaller male over territorial disputes (the loser lost haf its tail) but it all healed up now. From the very pictures I have seen of H Zebra in the wild the picture that stands out the most to me and is also an inspireing image for my project was presented at the L-welse gathering last year and shows a small H Zebra flanked very closely by 2 small B Xanthellus (2-3")

Also refer to the thread that Herbitoli JR started, if you look closely in one of the pictures you can see three BIG plecs (parancistrus/hopliancitrus and a tiny H Zebra tail in amongst them). So I beg to differ regarding there shy feeding temprement. i think that like Racoll says that due to there rarity, there value, there fragility (as juveniles) then people over papmer them and often keep them so protected it has reverse effects on them.

I'll put some pics eventually and you can have a look.

The panaque is 4" barely bigger than the Zebra, the non regional species wont be returning to the new set up.

[TwoTankAmin]

The only person I have ever heard speak about zebras in the wild and who has also gone down with the divers who collect them gave a totally different description. Here are a few of the salient points he made in his presentation:

1. Zebras live deep in fast flowing water.
2. There is no light there, they are collected by feel.
3. The current is so strong that he, as a very experienced diver, was scared to death he would be washed downstream. Collectors hold on for dear life with one arm and then feel around to collect with the other.
4. Deaths from drowning among collectors are not uncommon.

This leaves me very curious as to this statement

all the research I have done into this project has led me to Zebras not living in solitary groups of H Zebra, they commonly share there crevices with other species and many are much bigger then they are

Can you please provide links to information by folks who have actually been down to the floor of the Xingu which I can read/view to confirm this? I can find all sort of vids of various plecos shot in the wild but I have never been able to find a single vid of zebras being collected or of them living in the wild. If such vids exist, please, please post the links as I would love to be able to see this. My feeling is if these fish lived shallow and with all sorts of other species, there would be a least a few photos or vids which show this. But I am happy to be proved wrong on this.

I have located a recent paper on zebras but it is in Portuguese- you can read it here http://www3.ufpa.br/ppgeap/images/stori ... final_.pdf The one piece of information in that they had in English was that the fish were collected by divers using compressors. This agrees with what was presented above. The speaker used scuba gear but the local divers used a compressor and hoses.

[racoll]

Can you please provide links to information by folks who have actually been down to the floor of the Xingu which I can read/view to confirm this?

Also refer to the thread that Herbitoli JR started, if you look closely in one of the pictures you can see three BIG plecs (parancistrus/hopliancitrus and a tiny H Zebra tail in amongst them).

This is the thread.

all the research I have done into this project has led me to Zebras not living in solitary groups of H Zebra, they commonly share there crevices with other species and many are much bigger then they are

I don't think anyone is suggesting that they don't live close to other species in the wild, it's just that in an aquarium it's a risk, and a preventable one.

[TwoTankAmin]

I have read that thread, some lovely pictures. But I see no zebra in that one picture mentioned. It was labelled and there was no mention of a zebra (or zebra tail) in the picture caption. Further, neither of the two pictures of zebras I did see would indicate where the fish were actually caught or by whom. One picture he is holding the fish and he is underwater and clearly just below the surface and the other the fish is out of the water.

I have posted in that thread asking H to please clarify the details a bit.

[SilverDub]

Here is some info on a thread I strted a while ago - lots of links.

http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showth ... ope&page=2

[SilverDub]

Important picture that inspired my project.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/h_anatole/3035950770/

[solvent123]

i decided to re arange my tank, added alot more large and small pebels, took out 50% of my plants.


now my l46's are eating loads, they are extremly active, both are out 80% of the time, and both love to swim up the glass!

cant belive how active they are!

[David R]

Regardless of the pros or cons, it sounds like a very interesting and worth-while tank you're planning SilverDub, I look forward to seeing the progress! My only concern would be that when trying to replicate nature the closer to nature-sized aquarium one has the better. I'm not sure what the dimensions of your 410L tank is, but I hope it is low and wide to maximise floor area with the mix of fish you're planning.