Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
- Shane
- Expert
- Posts: 4593
- Joined: 30 Dec 2002, 22:12
- My articles: 69
- My images: 161
- My catfish: 75
- My cats species list: 4 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
- Spotted: 99
- Location 1: Tysons
- Location 2: Virginia
- Contact:
Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
- Scleropages
- Posts: 451
- Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 18:26
- My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
- Location 2: New Jersey
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
This just in: loricariid roe makes excellent caviar and goes great with Cachaça (Brazilian Firewater). And now a word from our sponsor, Agua Luca.
- jp11biod
- Posts: 288
- Joined: 29 Aug 2010, 15:00
- I've donated: $372.00!
- My cats species list: 36 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 2
- Location 2: NW Indiana
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
This is terrible.
The pet and hobby industries need to be regulated like any other.
Extraordinary measures, including public education, are needed to prevent the release of non-natives into local ecosystems. It is irresponsible to not do so.
The pet and hobby industries need to be regulated like any other.
Extraordinary measures, including public education, are needed to prevent the release of non-natives into local ecosystems. It is irresponsible to not do so.
- MatsP
- Posts: 21038
- Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
- My articles: 4
- My images: 28
- My cats species list: 117 (i:33, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 10 (i:8)
- My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
- Spotted: 187
- Location 1: North of Cambridge
- Location 2: England.
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
This sort of regulation is unlikely to be good for our hobby, and it's usually the "thin end of a wedge" that eventually ends up with "nothing is allowed".jp11biod wrote:This is terrible.
The pet and hobby industries need to be regulated like any other.
Education is definitely needed. In fact that _IS_ the way to solve this problem (because regulation will only work for small parts of the entire industry, and will not really solve the problem of pre-existing hobby fish).Extraordinary measures, including public education, are needed to prevent the release of non-natives into local ecosystems. It is irresponsible to not do so.
--
Mats
-
- Posts: 5302
- Joined: 26 Jan 2010, 20:11
- My images: 11
- My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 4
- Location 1: Naples, FL
- Location 2: USA
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
The "cry foul" article appears a bit aimed at inflammation, perhaps in hopes of higher readership.
If one tries to think like an official who is put in charge of solving the problem of people releasing non-native fish into our waters, they may think like that:
-- "total" 90%-100% control and surveillance of the fish-keepers is impossible atm
-- partial, 50%-90% successful, enforceable control would require unreasonable workforce and tax payer's money
-- partial 10%-50% control (as it is right now) will not be acceptable, eventually, to the bosses and the public anyway
-- so legislation needs a change
-- but then how to enforce it? cheap and effective is a scare/scapegoat tactic - it works better than education - most people pay attention to the news but could care less about/have no time for an education, so when they see the scapegoat cases on TV, the message will be delivered
-- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers
FL fish and wildlife spent tons of money trying to eradicate walking cats but the cats won - the cats are firmly established all over south FL. AFAIK, they banned arapaima from FL. I think it's only a matter of time that more is coming. E.g., people catch peacock bass in Miami area regularly. The system will be "perfected".
If one tries to think like an official who is put in charge of solving the problem of people releasing non-native fish into our waters, they may think like that:
-- "total" 90%-100% control and surveillance of the fish-keepers is impossible atm
-- partial, 50%-90% successful, enforceable control would require unreasonable workforce and tax payer's money
-- partial 10%-50% control (as it is right now) will not be acceptable, eventually, to the bosses and the public anyway
-- so legislation needs a change
-- but then how to enforce it? cheap and effective is a scare/scapegoat tactic - it works better than education - most people pay attention to the news but could care less about/have no time for an education, so when they see the scapegoat cases on TV, the message will be delivered
-- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers
FL fish and wildlife spent tons of money trying to eradicate walking cats but the cats won - the cats are firmly established all over south FL. AFAIK, they banned arapaima from FL. I think it's only a matter of time that more is coming. E.g., people catch peacock bass in Miami area regularly. The system will be "perfected".
Thebiggerthebetter
fish-story.com
fish-story.com
- MatsP
- Posts: 21038
- Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
- My articles: 4
- My images: 28
- My cats species list: 117 (i:33, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 10 (i:8)
- My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
- Spotted: 187
- Location 1: North of Cambridge
- Location 2: England.
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!Viktor Jarikov wrote: -- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers
--
Mats
- Scleropages
- Posts: 451
- Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 18:26
- My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
- Location 2: New Jersey
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Oh man, no arapaimas? What's next, burmese pythons? Oh yeah, they've already been banned: http://tinyurl.com/7895g3cViktor Jarikov wrote:AFAIK, they banned arapaima from FL.
My cousin, who is an avid fisherman, regularly catches peacock bass and festa's cichlids (Cichlasoma/Heros festae) near Miami in FL.
-
- Posts: 5302
- Joined: 26 Jan 2010, 20:11
- My images: 11
- My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 4
- Location 1: Naples, FL
- Location 2: USA
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
That'd be real bad. Well, they may point to that case, cited here as well, that Loricariidae survive Poland winters in the 7 degree C water (near or not a power plant) and ban them federally. There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.MatsP wrote:From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!Viktor Jarikov wrote: -- or total ban, e.g., on all Loricaiids that stops them at the border, following Australia's model - sure black market will exist but one still doesn't need to hire a million of wildlife officers, just 10,000 border workers
--
Mats
Thebiggerthebetter
fish-story.com
fish-story.com
- MatsP
- Posts: 21038
- Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
- My articles: 4
- My images: 28
- My cats species list: 117 (i:33, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 10 (i:8)
- My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
- Spotted: 187
- Location 1: North of Cambridge
- Location 2: England.
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
From my own personal experience, a regular car can take quite a few boxes of fish if one is that way inclined. And I doubt that the general populus would be "impressed" by a rule saying "If you carry anything that looks like a polybox or a cooler, you're to stop at the state-border inspection point, no matter what kind of vehicle you drive"...Viktor Jarikov wrote:There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.
--
Mats
-
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: 25 Jul 2003, 21:40
- I've donated: $30.00!
- My articles: 1
- My images: 37
- My cats species list: 5 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 9
- Location 1: Sweden
- Location 2: Sweden
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders, and have mainly been released either due to floodings or because the breeder went bankrupt and released his stock.
In short, they'd all have been free in the Everglades no matter how much you inform and regulate hobbyists.
Also, fwiw, the oscar and the peacock bass in Florida were introduced intentionally by state agencies to improve fishing.
In short, they'd all have been free in the Everglades no matter how much you inform and regulate hobbyists.
Also, fwiw, the oscar and the peacock bass in Florida were introduced intentionally by state agencies to improve fishing.
-- Disclaimer: All I write is strictly my personal and frequently uninformed opinion, I do not speak for the Swedish Museum of Natural History or FishBase! --
- Scleropages
- Posts: 451
- Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 18:26
- My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
- Location 2: New Jersey
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
My cousin mentioned that peacock bass put up a great fight when hooked. Imagine hooking an arapaima with a fly rod. Ha!Mike_Noren wrote:Also, fwiw, the oscar and the peacock bass in Florida were introduced intentionally by state agencies to improve fishing.
-
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Aug 2008, 14:26
- My images: 3
- My cats species list: 17 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 1
- Location 2: Germany
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
I once had a "behind the scenes" tour at the zoo and we got to feed the Arapaimas. Using roughly foot-long trout (which vere swallowed in whole). You'd need a VERY sturdy fishing rod. It was really cool to be standing above a tank with several of these huge fish (at the time around 35-40 years old). I've been fascinated by them ever since I was a little girl.Scleropages wrote: My cousin mentioned that peacock bass put up a great fight when hooked. Imagine hooking an arapaima with a fly rod. Ha!
Cheers,
Tina
Tina
-
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: 25 Jul 2003, 21:40
- I've donated: $30.00!
- My articles: 1
- My images: 37
- My cats species list: 5 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 9
- Location 1: Sweden
- Location 2: Sweden
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?
-- Disclaimer: All I write is strictly my personal and frequently uninformed opinion, I do not speak for the Swedish Museum of Natural History or FishBase! --
- Shane
- Expert
- Posts: 4593
- Joined: 30 Dec 2002, 22:12
- My articles: 69
- My images: 161
- My catfish: 75
- My cats species list: 4 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
- Spotted: 99
- Location 1: Tysons
- Location 2: Virginia
- Contact:
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Many non-natives were also released as part of State programs. Peacock bass (Cichla spp) were released on purpose and despite being non-native there is a limit of two per day per fishing license! There are also limits on several non-native bass spp.AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders, and have mainly been released either due to floodings or because the breeder went bankrupt and released his stock.
Huge top predator destroying native fish populations... save it! Gentle algae eating catfish... poison the lake.
You can't make this stuff up.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
-
- Posts: 328
- Joined: 06 Jun 2010, 21:28
- My cats species list: 9 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
- My BLogs: 1 (i:0, p:14)
- Location 2: Orange city fl. USA
- Interests: Hunt ,fish ,watch fish and P.O. the wife
nick name MULE
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish
mule
mule
- racoll
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: 26 Jan 2004, 12:18
- My articles: 6
- My images: 182
- My catfish: 2
- My cats species list: 2 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 1 (i:0)
- Spotted: 238
- Location 1: Bristol
- Location 2: UK
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Haha, nice idea! Unfortunately the crooks will just translocate them to new areas to make them easier to harvest. This is the inherent problem with commercialising invasive and harmful species. It backfires.crkinney wrote:Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish
- Suckermouth
- Posts: 1609
- Joined: 28 Nov 2003, 14:29
- My images: 17
- My cats species list: 22 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 2 (i:0)
- My BLogs: 6 (i:0, p:237)
- Spotted: 14
- Location 1: USA
- Location 2: Washington, DC
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Be that as it may, several states have species-specific bans, such as on piranhas and stingrays.MatsP wrote:From my experience with state borders in the US, they are not "checked" at all. So this would mean a ban on all Loricariidae entering all of the US, whether that part of the US has suitable habitat for Loricariidae or not. That would be a very bad situation for the (cat-)fish hobby!
--
Mats
- Milton Tan
Research Scientist @ Illinois Natural History Survey
Research Scientist @ Illinois Natural History Survey
-
- Posts: 5302
- Joined: 26 Jan 2010, 20:11
- My images: 11
- My cats species list: 25 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 4
- Location 1: Naples, FL
- Location 2: USA
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Agreed. They do videotape all lanes though and I saw them seize a small covered van/truck that failed to stop - our tax money in action.MatsP wrote:From my own personal experience, a regular car can take quite a few boxes of fish if one is that way inclined. And I doubt that the general populus would be "impressed" by a rule saying "If you carry anything that looks like a polybox or a cooler, you're to stop at the state-border inspection point, no matter what kind of vehicle you drive"...Viktor Jarikov wrote:There are check points on state borders but for commercial vehicles. Even full-size (private too?) vans now must stop at the check point on I-75 coming down from Georgia into Florida for agricultural, weight, etc. inspection.
I do hear of the cases and arrests based on illegal fish trafficking. Recently, one guy got in hot water for flying in several hundred thousand of alligator gar fry from Texas to FL and not having the license to do it. He thought the seller had a license and it covered it. Alligator gars are now being protected while not too long ago they were garbage fish any angler was free and even encouraged to kill.
I hear of the known cases of releases every time I have a substantial conversation with LFS workers. People dump their unwanted fish left and right without a second thought but thinking they are doing the humane, good thing. Others have different interests. I was told of the stories (?) that Chinese immigrants released walking cats in a lake near Miami because they wanted to keep catching them and eating them. Then, the nature found a way out, like in the Jurassic Park.Mike_Noren wrote:AFAIK none of the feral aquarium fish in Florida have been released by aquarists, they're all escapees from breeders...
Good to know. I wonder if this will prove as disastrous as State aquatic biologists handling the "natural" ways of managing the Great Lakes.Shane wrote:Many non-natives were also released as part of State programs. Peacock bass (Cichla spp) were released on purpose
Last edited by Viktor Jarikov on 25 Apr 2012, 12:56, edited 2 times in total.
Thebiggerthebetter
fish-story.com
fish-story.com
- Scleropages
- Posts: 451
- Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 18:26
- My cats species list: 6 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 3 (i:0)
- Location 2: New Jersey
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Excellent proposal. I now appoint you as the Special Armored Catfish Czar of Florida.crkinney wrote:Frist find a market for these fish ,lets say they are good to eat [witch they are ] Now put a limit on how many you can catch .Charge a big fine for possesing them and thoses crooks down there will fall over each other to steal them out of the lake.Bam no more fish
mule
Mike, thanks for sharing. I was not aware of S. inscriptus. To answer your question: yes! Now, how much does it cost to get to Myanmar... err, Burma... no, uhhh... Myanmar?Mike_Noren wrote:On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?
-
- Posts: 280
- Joined: 23 Aug 2008, 14:26
- My images: 3
- My cats species list: 17 (i:0, k:0)
- Spotted: 1
- Location 2: Germany
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Wow, truly amazing. How come the coolest fish are always too big?Mike_Noren wrote:On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?
But based on what people are willign to pay for beautiful "standard" arowana the price for this beauty will be VERY interesting if it is commercially available.
Cheers,
Tina
Tina
- Suckermouth
- Posts: 1609
- Joined: 28 Nov 2003, 14:29
- My images: 17
- My cats species list: 22 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 2 (i:0)
- My BLogs: 6 (i:0, p:237)
- Spotted: 14
- Location 1: USA
- Location 2: Washington, DC
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
Wow, sucks I don't have university access to this paper, it looks neat!Mike_Noren wrote:On the subject of Arowanas, have you guys seen this?
Is that a gorgeous fish, or is that a gorgeous fish?
- Milton Tan
Research Scientist @ Illinois Natural History Survey
Research Scientist @ Illinois Natural History Survey
- racoll
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: 26 Jan 2004, 12:18
- My articles: 6
- My images: 182
- My catfish: 2
- My cats species list: 2 (i:0, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 1 (i:0)
- Spotted: 238
- Location 1: Bristol
- Location 2: UK
Re: Armored catfish wreaking havoc in South Florida lakes
I'll send it to you, but to say that you'll be unimpressed with the quality of the science is perhaps an understatement. Personally I think it was irresponsible to describe it in this way, given that this species is now no longer protected under CITES (only S. formosus is), and so it is entirely legal to harvest and sell such an endangered, and previously protected creature from the wild.Suckermouth wrote:Wow, sucks I don't have university access to this paper, it looks neat!
Given its impressive patterning, I'd say that demand will be through the roof.