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I needed a rain-free, shaded, better-climate-controlled space instead of the screened-in lanai/courtyard. The estimates for a hard roof (e.g., metal) or a vinyl awning were coming in at $30,000-$40,000. So, I am modifying the screen cage myself to enable putting over a tarp/plastic in a green-house manner (except 90% or more of light will be blocked, at least during summers)...

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Temporary housing "pond duplex" for some of the fish...

Main entrance in the works...

Here are the ten 240 gal tanks. Took 4 guys plus my wife and my mother-in-law (yeah, )to place them... Was told by GlassCages they are 650 lbs each but I think, really, probably 400-450 lbs each. 1/2" glass all around. 8'x2'x2'. $759 each. $1450 to ship all 10 from Tennessee.

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A look around the 9-acre property, if interested. (Lazy man's version)

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/316-M ... 7557_zpid/

wow

it must be fun to have millions and millions of dollars......your kitchen is bigger than my house!

9 acres!
geez, over here they use that amount of land to put in a whole village

wow

it all looks great, though. very nice

not afraid all the 240 gallon tanks are going to overheat under the glass dome?

florida's a hot place afaik and it'll work like a greenhouse.

why not use "indoor ponds"?
I know of several tropical fishbreeders who are in Florida, one is Laif Demason.
he breeds Madagascar cichlids (along with Riftlake cichlids) and those are particular heat-loving fish, but in florida those breed in ponds (maybe just in summer, no idea).

SG: it must be fun to have millions and millions of dollars......
VJ: you are "only" off by three orders of magnitude, is all.

SG: 9 acres! geez, over here they use that amount of land to put in a whole village
VJ: Just to make sure we are on the same page - one acre comprises 4,840 square yards, 43,560 square feet or 4,047 square metres (0.405 hectares) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre

SG: not afraid all the 240 gallon tanks are going to overheat under the glass dome?
VJ: yes I am but there is no glass dome planned but a largely opaque canopy.

SG: florida's a hot place afaik and it'll work like a greenhouse.
VJ: greenhouse effect relies on light entering inside it. There will be almost none in warmer months. The two 55'x20' sides of this canopied structure will be open (apart from the mosquito net) for a breeze to cool the place, fish, and visitors a bit. The water pumped into the tanks will always be close to 74 F - ground temp; year round. No water return.

SG: why not use "indoor ponds"?
VJ: I view it as a indoor-outdoor hybrid. It's all I can afford atm with my insufficiently deep pockets.

SG: I know of several tropical fishbreeders who are in Florida, one is Laif Demason.
he breeds Madagascar cichlids (along with Riftlake cichlids) and those are particular heat-loving fish, but in florida those breed in ponds (maybe just in summer, no idea).
VJ: deep ponds are kept cooler by the earth. Shallow can easily hit upper 80 F and low 90 F.

So, essentially, the plot of land you are on is 36000 sq.meter. My flat is 42sq.meter (450sqft), so it would fit, roughly, 900 times on that piece of land... ;)

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Mats

MatsP wrote:So, essentially, the plot of land you are on is 36000 sq.meter. My flat is 42sq.meter (450sqft), so it would fit, roughly, 900 times on that piece of land... ;)

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Mats

I'm a couple towns away from Viktor (where the working class lives) and my garage is 500 sqft. Where do you keep your fish in a place that size?

Viktor,
I heard that Mote Marine is looking to open a facility around here. Have you heard this or is it maybe just a rumor?

Mats, I am not sure why we are comparing land to living space or why we are comparing, period. Apples-to-apples would be 6000 sq ft in our two ranch houses vs. your flat. But, again, everything has pros and cons. Consider effort- and time-intensive maintenance, for one. While you may be free as a bird to spend your weekends, my wife and I are slaving away to maintain all of this "splendor", indoor and out.

Joe, I have not heard that. If it is true, I, needless to say, do not like it one bit... at the face value.

joefish72b wrote:I'm a couple towns away from Viktor (where the working class lives) and my garage is 500 sqft. Where do you keep your fish in a place that size?

With difficulty, and not much space for other things. In my living room, I have 10ft rack with 8 tanks, one on the side surface in the "kitchen" (which is physically the same room as the living room). Two more tanks in the bedroom. RO unit + water storage in the loft. I have to do my water changes over 3-4 sessions in a week, because I can't store enough water to change the water in one go.

I don't have a sofa, only one armchair, etc.

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Mats

Viktor Jarikov wrote:Mats, I am not sure why we are comparing land to living space or why we are comparing, period. Apples-to-apples would be 6000 sq ft in our two ranch houses vs. your flat. But, again, everything has pros and cons. Consider effort- and time-intensive maintenance, for one. While you may be free as a bird to spend your weekends, my wife and I are slaving away to maintain all of this "splendor", indoor and out.

Well, I don't actually own where I live - I own the house where my ex-wife lives (or, technically, a part of any leftover money when it is sold in about 12 years time) - and the flat I live in has no land attached to it.

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Mats

well, I guess land as well as large houses and building must be a lot cheaper in Florida than in North West Europe

a house like yours, victor, would cost at least several million euro's here

that amount of land even more; you'd need a yearly paycheck in excess of 1 million a year to afford such a property; otherwise you'd loose it in just a few years.

amazing

there's no way distracting 3 zero's and making it thousands, one could build something big like that over here.

I lived in a villa the last 2,5 years until recently; and that villa was about half a million dollars (it's not mine! i just rented there until I left); it could fit in the place with the greenhouse like structures.

the footprint of the villa was a bit over 30 feet x 30 feet.
the piece of land it was build in (smack in the center, it had a great garden) was 100 feet x 100 feet.
the original price was about 580,000 euro's (760,000$)


wow.
cheap land, cheap houses....

amazing.

The prices vary with the area: in the middle of nowhere in SW FL, one might pay ~$5,000-$10,000 per acre. On the outskirts of towns like Naples (my area), it is ~$10,000-$30,000 an acre. Prime lots: there is no ceiling especially in touristy, commercial spots, perhaps hundreds-of-thousands-to-millions per acre.

Same simple logic per sq ft of living space. Our houses: ~$50 a sq ft (1974 and 1997 - two houses). Comparable newbuilts - about 2-2.5 times more.

Just to give you ball park. Do not quote me.

Our property used to be $1-$2 million at the height of the FL real estate bubble, which burst about 3.5 years ago. Even today, people can buy foreclosed $1 million homes for $200,000... with some luck even for $100,000. Plenty on the market all over FL.

What we paid (3/4 with our pension funds and 1/4 out-of-pocket) - the zillow website above says. We had to borrow money from friends and could barely afford food and gasoline after that. So much for millionaires. As I said, my Aquarium exhibit budget is ~$45,000 - two 4500 gal tanks and ten 240 gal tanks. That is all. And that's about half of what we got from selling our Rochester, NY house at the end of Dec 2011. The other half goes to paying the debts.

Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:

Suckermouth wrote:As a sidenote, being "too cheap" can also give a negative appearance to your business.

Care to elaborate?

If something is really cheap then you do not expect a high level of quality. Having to pay a greater amount subconsciously gives a greater amount of quality to something.

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

I've gotta say that's an interesting idea, and is quite a reversal from how at least I imagine an aquarium is, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid way to make money. On the other hand, restaurants are one of the toughest businesses to get into, and they don't also have thousands of gallons of water and fish to maintain.

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Do this Viktor!

and good luck fella, you are living my dream lolz.

grokefish wrote:

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Do this Viktor!

and good luck fella, you are living my dream lolz.

Or better yet, to prevent "freeloaders", you charge a $5-10 entrance fee, which is also a voucher for refreshments. So if the guests just want to see your fish, then they have to pay. If they want a cup of coffee and a piece of cake, they get it "included in the price".

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Mats

MatsP wrote:

grokefish wrote:

racoll wrote:Coming on nicely!

This might sound like a crazy idea, but I would perhaps concentrate less on the fish, in terms of the business aspect.

I would think about making the area just a nice place to hang out in, perhaps like a cafe with tables, water features, plants, decorative features etc. I would even consider not charging people to enter, but make money on providing food and beverages.

You would then, hopefully, get a lot of repeat custom from local folks who just want to chill out in the nice surroundings and admire the fishes.

Do this Viktor!

and good luck fella, you are living my dream lolz.

Or better yet, to prevent "freeloaders", you charge a $5-10 entrance fee, which is also a voucher for refreshments. So if the guests just want to see your fish, then they have to pay. If they want a cup of coffee and a piece of cake, they get it "included in the price".

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Mats

+1 this

A local public aquarium in my home town charges about $26.50 entry, and that includes an educational tour. (Granted, this is a large public aquarium). They have a yearly option which is about $38.65, and that gets you unlimited entry, plus discounts in the cafe` and 15 or 20% off for a person that accompanies them.

That could be a possibility - either have a one off fee for people to drop by or have membership. Membership can be charged at a rate of 1.5 - 2.5 times the single entry fee; by having it 1.5 times the entry fee - most people will be inclined to just get it as it's better value for money. If the service does provide cake/coffee, then you may be inclined to give them anywhere between 20-50% off the cost of this for yearly members. (Ensure that the discount still allows for some gross profit).

Not being familiar with the area - but as a perspective, I would be quite happy to pay $5 to sit around with a hot chocolate/coffee. $10 would be cake and coffee. If you get public WiFi that allows for low browsing (no downloading/high content), you may get students camping there. (Unsure if this is a wanted thing or not though ) Just ensure your price balances against the economy - minimum wage in US being $7.25 [source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wa ... ted_States].

For Australian's, a fee of $26 is a little expensive for some, however our minimum wage sits at $15.51 [source: http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/national ... fault.aspx] and it is a large coral aquarium, sitting at 2.5 million liters; so their price is justified.

Jumping back to the food business - I think snack food would be a good thing to start out with. Just going on Australian small business wholesale prices, (not familiar with pricing in US), you can buy cans of coke for 55-70c per can, on sell these for $1 - 2.50; chips, about 50c-$1.50 a packet (depending on size), on sell for $1 - $5.. etc. That's another way to generate profit, and as I mentioned, having a discount on items in the Cafe (10-20% off, depending) will make people be more inclined to sign up for a year pass.

Just some ideas. Wishing you luck! I'm looking forward to how this will turn out!

Viktor, you got water in them tanks yet? Kudos to your endeavor!

Ladies, gents, thanks much for the helpful ideas and support. Nope, the ten 240 gal tanks still sit the same, not plumbed, as you see them on the pics above... and, unfortunately the rainy season is here, so the stands are almost always wet. The 3/4" plywood is treated so no rotting but it started to distort/sag in places. One tank's bottom pane cracked because of the heat - there is no canopy over the fish-house yet and the sun is merciless. Two 4500 gal 13'x13'x4.5' tanks have been made by Dolphin Fiberglass Products and are awaiting delivery any moment.

Building the business from scratch and on a shoe string can be very long and stressful, if you let it. The trick is not let it. I've despaired plenty of times but so far rebounded.

After 1 year of laboring, there is still no telling if we'd ever open. There are problems on every corner one turns and if they cannot throw money at the problems, as in hire professionals to handle the problems, whether technical, legal, construction, municipal, code enforcement, etc., they have to solve the problems themselves or with a minimal professional help.

Two biggest obstacles atm are obtaining a Conditional Land Use permit (essentially a re-zoning process) that would allow our intended commercial activity in an Agricultural zone and a "greenhouse" permit. My "greenhouse" fish-house structure has to withstand 160 MPH hurricane wind according to the new code with the canopy still on it. So, whatever I built roughly according to the old code (pre-March 2012; the canopy detaches at 70 MPH and only the cage structure has to withstand 140 MPH wind) has to be rebuilt and/or heavily reinforced.

The Land Use permitting has hit plenty of snags. Having gone through 3 hearings, there are two more public hearings scheduled. Usually, it is a 1.5 year roughly $30,000 process, to give you a flavor.

I am not looking for sympathies (let's keep the thread clean), just a short reality update.

Hi Viktor,

Sympathies aside, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope your dream does not become your downfall.

Chin up it takes guts to engage in anything remotely similar to this. Without folk like yourselves, who have vision and commitment, many people would not get to enjoy the fascinating world of fish keeping, and who knows what becomes of those who see what is laid out before them. We all take our inspiration from somewhere.
Good luck and for the record, what we have here is what we have, what you have there is what you have. It should not be a factor on this thread, yes we can be envious and compare, but you could do that the world over. Well done.

Keep us all upto date with any advancement!

Cheers n Beers.

Viktor Jarikov wrote:The prices vary with the area: in the middle of nowhere in SW FL, one might pay ~$5,000-$10,000 per acre. On the outskirts of towns like Naples (my area), it is ~$10,000-$30,000 an acre. Prime lots: there is no ceiling especially in touristy, commercial spots, perhaps hundreds-of-thousands-to-millions per acre.

In NL prices differ - but land where one is permitted to build a houde on go for 200 euros a square meter if one is extremely lucky, 400 is common, 800 is not unheard of, in urbane quarters

200 euros equals today approximately 250 US $, to put matters in perspective

having 3,600 square meters in an acre, an acre of ground where one would be allowed to build a house on would, therefore, sell for 720,000 euros, or 900,000 US $.

buildable ground is rather expensive

Update: Sept 17 2012

Thank you to all for attention and support.

We have seriously lucked out and finally got our Conditional Land Use permit (essentially a conditional re-zoning permit) on Sept 11, 2012, granted by the Collier County Planning Commission + the Board of Collier County Commissioners. That was the biggest hurdle so far.

The exhibit hall (atrium / shade-house type structure) building permit is the next hurdle. We had to hire an engineer to calculate and devise reinforcements to what I've built so far. We, again, got very lucky to find a nice, reputable, and knowledgeable civil engineer, who did not make me disassemble what I put together in my highly unconventional building ways (see pics ) but build on it. So with new blueprints I will apply for the building permit now and hopefully continue building after having been approved.

Then will come the Certificate of Occupancy, including fire review, traffic, parking review, etc. and we should be able to open our doors... AFAIK ATM. Maybe this winter? Who knows. I don't dare to forecast anymore. I am usually off... well, only by a factor of 2-3

The ten 240 gal tanks still sit the same, not plumbed. The two 4500 gal 13'x13'x4.5' tanks made by Dolphin Fiberglass Products are here too, now awaiting assembly. They come in 4 pieces each.

I'll go take some pics now and post them. Stand by, please.

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