L114

[Squidward]

Hi All,

I would like to possibly like to add a L114, Ps leopardus to my tank.

The ph is 7.6, moderately hard.
RO water is not an option for me, but I do add Black Water Extract for the other fish in the tank.

Is the water suitable for these?
How hardy are they in respect of water conditions?
Or should I rather leave it?

Thanks
Squidward

[plecomanpat]

I have multiple L114'S in various tanks and have no problems. I live in Michigan and have well water which is quite hard. I salt the water after water changes which seems to help. Mine are very hardy and healthy, just be careful who you designate as their tankmates as they can be quite scrappy, they also like to have a cave to hang out in, be it wood or slate. btw my ph is 7.4 out of the tap.

[Squidward]

I have multiple L114'S in various tanks and have no problems. I live in Michigan and have well water which is quite hard. I salt the water after water changes which seems to help. Mine are very hardy and healthy, just be careful who you designate as their tankmates as they can be quite scrappy, they also like to have a cave to hang out in, be it wood or slate. btw my ph is 7.4 out of the tap.

Hi
Thanks for the info.
Do you know what your GH & KH are?
My PH is about 7.1 out of the tap, but increases quite a bit after left to stand for 24 hours.

Thanks

[MatsP]

I kept mine for over a year in RO waste-water, which is slightly harder than the tap-water in Southern England, around 350-400 ppm TDS, and pH around 7.6.

Also, bear in mind that pH is not that important to the fish's wellbeing - it's the hardness (or conductivity) of the water.

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Mats

[Squidward]

I kept mine for over a year in RO waste-water, which is slightly harder than the tap-water in Southern England, around 350-400 ppm TDS, and pH around 7.6.

Also, bear in mind that pH is not that important to the fish's wellbeing - it's the hardness (or conductivity) of the water.

--
Mats

Mats,
My KH is 15.
Do you know what yours is?
Thanks
Squidward

[MatsP]

Not exactly for the water I used to keep the fish in. Now it's in KH around 3, but somewhere around 15 or so is probably what comes out of the tap here - and about 20% more for the RO waste water, as 20% of the water has been taken away.

Where do you live? If you fill in a bit more detail thank UK on your profile location (found under User Control Panel), you will not have to answer that question again, on some other subject... ;)

--
Mats

[Squidward]

Not exactly for the water I used to keep the fish in. Now it's in KH around 3, but somewhere around 15 or so is probably what comes out of the tap here - and about 20% more for the RO waste water, as 20% of the water has been taken away.

Where do you live? If you fill in a bit more detail thank UK on your profile location (found under User Control Panel), you will not have to answer that question again, on some other subject... ;)

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Mats

Hi,
I have updated my profile.
I am in Radlett in Hertfordshire.

Our water is quite hard here, not ideal for soft water fish.
Unfortunately, installing a RO unit is not an option for me.

My tank water is kept clean though.
I vacuum weekly and do a 25% water change.

Were the L114s ok in your water?
KH must have been in the region of 18?

Another idea I am toying with is a DI unit only. I know that tapwater would use up the resin fairly quickly. But I would be making about 30L a week, so not too bad.

Thanks
Squidward

[MatsP]

I was until I moved my tanks and got RO for all my tanks, keeping it in the WASTE-WATER from the RO system, and I can't say I saw ANY bad effects from the high TDS.

It now HAPPENS to be in RO, because I can't keep one fish in RO, and other fish "not" in RO in the same tank, and I have RO in most of my tanks at present.

And I expect Hertfordshire water is similar.

--
Mats

[Linus_Cello]

Our water is quite hard here, not ideal for soft water fish.
Unfortunately, installing a RO unit is not an option for me.

What about using water treated with peat moss? Here's a post from someone in my local fish club:

I buy the large square bale shaped, plastic warapped canadian peat moss at either Home Depot or Lowes (only because they are closeby) [These are US home improvement chains]. Do not use peat moss brands such as miracle grow as they add fertilizers and chemicals which are not aquarium friendly.

Because I have a number of tanks in which I need soft water, I have rubbermaid big brute trashcan (45 gallon) with the attachable wheel base to which I then take a zippered pillowliner and fill it with the peat. I put it in the bottom of the rubbermaid with some 12x12 slate tiles to weigh things down as peat is very lightweight and floats until saturated. I place an airline in the bottom to circulate the water and within about 12 hours I have a dark tea colored mixture from which I can mix with R.O. or tap water to get the softness and PH desired. As I use water from that trashcan I top it off and when the peat no longer lowers the softness and PH desired, I then use the peat in the garden as a soil additive or add it to mulch so nothing goes to waste.

Depending on how fresh the peat is, I have had batches that were used up in a week and had other batches that after 2 months were still softening water easily.

[Squidward]

Linus_Cello,

Thanks for the idea.
I tried some sort of peat set up yesterday evening. So will see how that goes.

In the UK we have something called Blackwater Extract, which is concentrated peat liquid with some other additives. Am not sure how effective it is, and I think it would work out quite expensive to use long term. So the home made peat extract is probably better.

Thanks
Squidward

[Squidward]

I was until I moved my tanks and got RO for all my tanks, keeping it in the WASTE-WATER from the RO system, and I can't say I saw ANY bad effects from the high TDS.

It now HAPPENS to be in RO, because I can't keep one fish in RO, and other fish "not" in RO in the same tank, and I have RO in most of my tanks at present.

And I expect Hertfordshire water is similar.

--
Mats

Mats,
How did you acclimatise your fish to the harder water?
Reason I ask is the lfs has them in soft acid water. So I don't want to shock it when I introduce it to my system.

[MatsP]

I got mine from an LFS that uses tap-water, so I wasn't concerned about that. But when I have done it in the past, I've dripped water using an air-line (usually with a knot on the line to reduce the flow to a few drops per second), and using a TDS-meter to measure the new TDS value of the fish.

Usually, I move fish from hard to soft water...

--
Mats

[Squidward]

I got mine from an LFS that uses tap-water, so I wasn't concerned about that. But when I have done it in the past, I've dripped water using an air-line (usually with a knot on the line to reduce the flow to a few drops per second), and using a TDS-meter to measure the new TDS value of the fish.

Usually, I move fish from hard to soft water...

--
Mats

If I introduce a fish from the LFS which I know is much softer than mine, the TDS will be very different too?

[apistomaster]

Not sure I understood your question but I find I can make a change of 50% lower or higher TDS without any problem as long as the pH is similar. I frequently do this with Discus and Plecos.

[MatsP]

Your TDS will be proportional (near as we need for this discussion) to how hard/soft the water is (hard water -> higher TDS value). I don't know what the actual hardness is in Wildwoods, so I can't say whether it is in the +/-50% range that Larry suggests is safe.

I tend to aim for a tad closer than that...

--
Mats

[Squidward]

Hi,
Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself that clear.
What I wanted to say was that when you had the L114 in your hardish (RO waste) water, then the TDS would have been high?

If I get one of the Wildwoods fish, the problem I see is they keep their fish in soft, low ph water.
Introucing it into my harder water would be problematic?

Sorry I keep going round in circles with this. Just want to understand it correctly.

[MatsP]

Hard water = high TDS, yes. It is more complicated if you look at it strictly on hardness, as hardness and TDS readings do not mean the same thing. TDS is really "conductivity". Hardness is any salts with 2+ or 3+ ion values, e.g. calcium, magnesium, iron, cupper and many other metals. We can have high TDS with normal table-salt in the water - that wouldn't make the water hard.

But I'm confident you'll be OK with the fish in normal southern England tap-water.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

I have not had any problems changing the TDS/EC by 50% in one step up or down but once the TDS is less than 100 ppm TDS I become more conservative with the amount of change I make at one step down, Going up is not as important and 50% higher is safe. I make these large changes at about 4 days apart between steps. If the KH tests are below 4* you should use caution making very large RO water changes.
Once the TDS is lower than 100 ppm the KH may be fairly low and then I have to keep in mind that I will want enough buffering capacity to avoid a precipitous pH drop. KH can not be determined by only a TDS/EC reading and you need to Check KH using a colormetric method but once you know more about your water you can estimate what the KH is based on previous test results of different ratios of RO to tap water if that is how you are controlling the TDS. If you use RO water and products like RO right you should test using colormetric methods and electronic TDS/EC meters. Eventually you learn what to expect if you add a tsp of RO Right or similar if you have recorded the results of color metric tests for future reference.

It is very useful to acquire a copy of the comprehensive test results your water utility runs annually which are performed by an independent testing laboratory to prove they are in compliance with your country's national standards. These are normally free for the asking in the USA and tell you everything you could want to know about your tap water's composition. I happen to live in a city which has a KH of 6* and a GH of 6 to 7 degrees so that means however much I may dilute it with RO water the ratio between the Ca++ and Mg++ ions is always similar. This also is a nice balance between the KH and GH making the use of tap water as my mineral supplements to RO very workable.
In some areas the KH is very low but the GH is quite high thus when you test your water by an electronic TDS/EC meter it may seem fairly soft yet the pH may be more than 8.0+.

[Squidward]

Hi All,

Well I have finally managed to track down a L114 at a decent price.

BUT. Why is there always a but??
I have to go and collect it on Saturday. But I am going away on business from Monday for a week. I have someone coming to feed my fish while I am away, but it will only be once, and prob during the day.
This fish is about 8cm.
Bearing in mind that it will be new to my tank and may not be eating much anyway.
Will it be ok for a week or so without food?
Or shouldn't I risk it?

Thanks
Squidward

[MatsP]

I'd say it's fine for a week at that size. How much are you paying, if you don't mind me asking?

--
Mats

[Squidward]

I'd say it's fine for a week at that size. How much are you paying, if you don't mind me asking?

--
Mats

No, not at all. It's £40 for a 3 inch fish.
Long story but I am getting it from someone who bought a batch. Not sure where from.

I think the ones at Wildwoods of a similar size are £60.

[RickE]

Squidward - is that the one in World of Water at Hunton Bridge?

[MatsP]

Are you getting just the one, or a group?

--
Mats

[Squidward]

Squidward - is that the one in World of Water at Hunton Bridge?

Wildwoods is in Enfield, just inside in M25.

[Squidward]

Are you getting just the one, or a group?

--
Mats

I would like to get a few, but that will be a bit too much ££

And also I have read that if you keep multiple fish in your tank, they get quarrelsome as they get a bit older.

[RickE]

Squidward - is that the one in World of Water at Hunton Bridge?

Wildwoods is in Enfield, just inside in M25.

Yeah, I know Wildwoods. World of Water have one (at £45ish I think).

[Squidward]

Squidward - is that the one in World of Water at Hunton Bridge?

Wildwoods is in Enfield, just inside in M25.

Yeah, I know Wildwoods. World of Water have one (at £45ish I think).

Hi,
Thanks for suggesting WOW.
Went this morning to go and get one. It was £45, a bit more than the one I was supposed to get from this other person. But I did save on 1/2 tank of petrol and my entire Sat morning getting this other one.

Anyway, I am really pleased with it. As soon as I let it go, it disappeared into the pile of bogwood. But I can see it moving about in there.

[Squidward]

Hi,

Almost 2 weeks on.
As soon as I let my fish go, it swam into the pile of bogwood.
And I haven't seen it since. Should I be concerned? Are these ultra secretive?

Thanks
Squidward

[MatsP]

I rarely see mine, and it's been like that since I got it. Mine does turn up from time to time when there's good about.

Feeding at night and sitting in the dark with a torch may help to let you see the fish come out - but expect it to go back into it's hide as soon as the light hits it...

--
Mats

[joefish72b]

I know I'm late to this party but I have water that is so hard you could almost walk on it 950 ppm TDS. I currently have (10) L114 fron 2"-3" (5-8cm)my ph is 6.8 and my temp is 76F.

Average price here in the U.S. for fish that size is $25-$40