Going DEEPER: Banana/Walter/Microworms

[Aquafinatic]

Hi everyone!

For about 6 weeks now, I've been raising Banana worms, Walter worms, and Micro worms. I find this very easy to do, and I've been able to use them to great advantage, for a number of applications. With regard to catfish, I feed them to my Corydoras Pygamaeus, on a regular basis. I sure don't know why it took me so long to decide to raise these critters!

As I tend to do, I've been thinking about these little nematodes, and wondering if there is a way to improve upon my methods. As a result, I have four questions, and I'd love to hear any responses that you may have. (Before I state my questions, I should probably explain that I am using the "standard" water+rolled oats+yeast recipe, for raising them.)

1) I've been taught to ONLY harvest the nematodes that are climbing up the SIDES of the breeding container, so that I do not inadvertently pick up any oats or yeast, and transfer that to my aquarium. I have been very careful in that regard, and yet... I'm not convinced that I'm still not getting some of the breeding medium, along with the nematodes. I say that because, even if I'm certain that every last nematode has been eaten by the fish, it sometimes appears as though my water is "fouling" faster than it should, this only happens on the tanks where I feed the nematodes. Has anyone else had this experience, and if so, do you have an easy solution?

2) Does anyone know WHY the nematodes climb the sides of the container?

3) Has anyone ever seen any kind of written material, showing that there is a significant nutritional difference between Banana, Walter, and Microworms?

4) Does anyone know if we can significantly alter the nutritional value of these nematodes, by putting something into their food?

Thank you. Have a great and fishy day.

[MatsP]

I can't comment directly on the questions you have, but I would have thought that a small amount of oats or yeast is not at all harmful for the tank - obviously, larger amounts is a source of pollution just like anything else.

The other though I have is that your tanks are fouling simply because you are putting more protein source in there.

--
Mats

[RIPbiglad]

Mates of mine use a slice of bread instead of the oats as its supposed not to smell as much

[Aquafinatic]

Mates of mine use a slice of bread instead of the oats as its supposed not to smell as much

Thank you. I'm big on experimentation, so I'll try that one right away.

[Aquafinatic]

...... I would have thought that a small amount of oats or yeast is not at all harmful for the tank - obviously, larger amounts is a source of pollution just like anything else.

The other thought I have is that your tanks are fouling simply because you are putting more protein source in there.

--
Mats

Well... perhaps a "small amount" is not. I've blamed the fouling on this, because this is the only thing that I've been doing differently. But boy, Mats ----- you've got me wondering about that "protein theory". I didn't explain this in the initial post, but the two tanks that have been fouling the most, are guppy tanks. For them, this feeding regimen change HAS resulted in a significant protein increase. In contrast, in the C. Pygmaeus tank - (mentioned earlier) - I have primarily used the "worms"/nematodes to replace OTHER PROTEINS, such as B.S. nauplii, for example. In THAT tank, the clarity of the water has changed very little.

I think you're ON to something! Okay... time for another experiment!

[MatsP]

I would seriously expect guppy to eat both yeast and oats anyways - and they actually do better on a low-protein diet.

--
Mats

[Aquafinatic]

I would seriously expect guppy to eat both yeast and oats anyways - and they actually do better on a low-protein diet.

--
Mats

Hi Mats,

Well... If what I suspected IS happening, (that some oats and yeast ARE getting into the tank), it is basically a "liquified" mixture of the two. This mixture of watery food/growth media tends to collect near the sides of the container. My theory was that the nematodes might be "dragging" some of that stuff up the sides of the container, on their bodies.

But since the oat/yeast mixture is so "watery" there, I don't see how the guppys could actually get it into their mouths.

With regard to your comment about the guppy's diet -- I'm not a guppy expert, so I surely wouldn't argue with you. These are sort of my "daughter's fish", that breed and are sold to the L.F.S. But since you brought up that point, I'd sure like a chance to comment, or maybe "vent" a bit.

I do feed other foods to them, and perhaps I've been overzealous in using the nematodes, since they are "new" to me, and I was excited to use them.

However -- if that is true about them -- that they do better on a low-protein diet -- then what is all the "talk" that I've read, (in the guppy books and articles), about giving "...frequent, MEATY meals..."? I've lost count of how many times I've read that "...these live-bearing tooth carps need meaty offerings, several times per day". I understand that I cannot believe everything that I read, (unless I read it on Planet Catfish, of course! ), but at some point, I begin to wonder what the purpose of all my reading/study is, if I don't know what is correct, and what is in error. Sigh...

[MatsP]

My understanding of the Guppy diet is that they are omnivores, so they need both meaty foods and "green" or "vegetarian" foods. In nature, I'm pretty sure a vast majority of their food comes from low-nutrient "vegetarian" foods.

But as you sort of imply, everyone has their own thoughts on right/wrong foods. When looking up the guppy diet as part of writing this reply, I found a page suggesting feeding of beef-heart to guppies. Something I wouldn't suggest (to any fish - the fat in warmblooded animals is too "hard" for cold-blooded animals to make use of)

--
Mats

[Aquafinatic]

......In nature, I'm pretty sure a vast majority of their food comes from low-nutrient "vegetarian" foods......

But as you sort of imply, everyone has their own thoughts on right/wrong foods. When looking up the guppy diet as part of writing this reply, I found a page suggesting feeding of beef-heart to guppies. Something I wouldn't suggest (to any fish - the fat in warmblooded animals is too "hard" for cold-blooded animals to make use of)

--
Mats

I *thought* that they were eating a preponderance of larvae/immature forms of insects, etc. in the wild. But despite my previous beliefs about their diet, when I'm using the worms to feed the guppys, then the balance of the day I feed them with a flake that is almost ENTIRELY made of algae and veggies, with a small amount of grain products, of course, and almost no animal product. So maybe, altogether, it isn't a bad diet for them, (as long a I control myself on the worms).

I appreciate you mentioning the "beef-heart" info. that you saw, because it illustrates my point, (and frustration), quite well.

[2wheelsx2]

Wild guppies and Endlers subsist mainly on mosquito larvae during the breeding season, but I believe they revert to a mainly herbivorous diet after breeding season.

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I keep separate micro/grindal-worm cultures as well, but I now also mix micro-worms in with my grindal worm cultures as an "insurance". I just add a small amount of the micro-worm culture (I use rolled oats as the culture media for the micro-worms) to the "instant oat cereal" (that I feed the grindal worms with) when I re-culture the microworms. The grindal worms cultures are in 1 litre ice-cream containers, with peat based potting compost with a small amount of oyster shell chicken grit added, and the cereal fed under a glass square. I usually add a couple of red-worms as well.

I've had mixed cultures for several years now and they seem quite stable and the growth of the grindal worms is very good. I use the mixed culture for fry which are different sized or where they are possibly big enough for grindals, but still small enough to be interested in the micro-worms.

I feed by pippetting a stream of water (with a plastic dropper) onto the glass cover, if you go fairly carefully (and hold the glass up to the light) you can alter the proportion of grindal/micro worms to the one you want.

cheers Darrel

[Aquafinatic]

Hi all,
I keep separate micro/grindal-worm cultures as well, but I now also mix micro-worms in with my grindal worm cultures as an "insurance"......

I've had mixed cultures for several years now and they seem quite stable and the growth of the grindal worms is very good......
cheers Darrel

Hi Darrel!
I have never heard or read of anything similar to your method. Do you mind if I ask HOW LONG you've been using these methods? Also -- did you have any "problems" along the way -- before you figured it out?
Cheers!
Jake

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I've been doing it for several years, I only re-culture the mixed cultures about once every 6 months. It started accidentally when I began feeding the old culture media from the micro worms to the grindal worms as an experiment, and found the grindal worms did very well. After a while I noticed that there were microworms on thecover glass as well as grindals, and that these seems to be quite a stable situation. I've had one culture (out of about 20) where the mixed culture went sour, but no other problems. You can always get pure cultures of either from the mixed culture, if you swirl the culture in a small amount of tank water in a beaker and draw the liquid of with a dropper you have the microworms (and yeast) starter for a new culture, and if you wash the grindal worms in a fine aquarium net (I usually do this under the tap) you can get a grindal worm stater culture.

cheers Darrel

[Aquafinatic]

Hi Darrel,

Thank you for the details, and the unique idea. I plan to give your method a try.

[markmoten]

i've been keeping micro, walter and bananaworm cultures for a few months and start a new culture every 8-12 weeks or so ! i use a fairly thick oat mix (3cups oats to 5cups water). i place a moist paper coffee filter(cut around the edges so you get 2 sheets) on top of the culture! harvesting couldn't be easier! the worms gather ontop of the filter paper so you can just scrape them off without any of the oat mix, or rinse them off in tank water and replace them. i also sprinkle dry/flake food on the mix(under the filter paper) to "enrich" the worms! (acording to a german website) you can also mix the oats with pure carrot or tomato juice(no additives)in place of water. the worms take up the carotein passing it on to the fry when eaten.
you can also take a piece of styrofoam and cut a 1cm hole in it! plug the hole with filter wool dipped in the tank first! scrape some of the worms from the filter paper and put it on the filter wool! now float it in the tank and you have an automatic feeder ! the fry will soon discover the worms !
hope this can help some people!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike_Noren]

they actually do better on a low-protein diet.

I agree with everything you've said except this. I can't find it now, but there's been at least one study (in the 80's I think) on guppy which found that higher protein diet led to longer lifespan and greater number of offspring. The top performing feed was chopped earthworm, with flake performing worse and bread and cereal performing very poorly and resulting in very few offspring.

I also think 2wheelsx2's comment should be viewed in the light of preference & availability of food: wild guppies would no doubt eat mosquito larvae year round if they were available year round, it is not by choice but by necessity they switch to lower quality food during the dry season.

[kim m]

I use spriulina-powder instead of yeast...I have the idea that the worms are better food for the fry of they are fed spirulina. Anyway, it does not smell even half as bad as if using yeast, which especially my girlfriend appreciates:)