Tank size for Ageneiosus (vittatus/sp(3))

[Martin S]

OK, so my new tank is now ready - not quite as big as I really wanted, but it was more about what I could afford, so instead of the 39"x24"x24" (100x60x60) I planned for, I have a very nice 39"x18"Wx20"H (100x45x50), with cabinet and hood.
Anyway, I was considering adding two or maybe three mid-sized auchenipterids, but know that they are not commonly available. I had a look at what Wildwoods has in stock and they have

Ageneiosus vittatus

listed HERE, but I suspect these are probably something like

Ageneiosus sp(3)

.
Anyway, my question - is my new tank big enough for these? I'm guessing not really, and not even sure I should ask the question, but if I don't, then I know I'll wish I had!
I have reduced my stock down, and now only have the Auchenipterids and Doradids, and two Peruvian Angelfish. I'm adding at least one pair of fully grown

Pseudolithoxus anthrax

once the new tank is up and running, but apart fropm that the only intention is to add maybe another adult

Liosomadoras oncinus

, a male if I can find one of a good size.
Martin

[Richard B]

Hiya buddy

2 things....phone first to check stock availability as TFF is sooo unreliable

personally i like to see Ageneiosus kept in tanks that exceed the standard 4x2x2 rule as if they get startled they can zoom off & bang the sides very easily. Well settled individuals seem to know their surroundings better but let's see what Marc has to say as he is clearly the godfather of woodcats on PC

[Marc van Arc]

Nice stock.... especially A. nigripinnis for a bargain price.
E. benjamini on the other hand is ridiculously expensive - even if it's the real benjamini.

Anyway, wrt A. sp3: mine apparently have stopped growing at 13-14 cms. If you keep the surface clear (no very large plants or other obstacles) so they can roam around at night, imo you should allow yourself a pair of these. These fish are rather careful and won't bang the sides ime. In case you fear you've got too many fishes, just change your water more frequently

[MatsP]

In case you fear you've got too many fishes, just change your water more frequently

That's always been my attitude - at least within reason!

--
Mats

[Martin S]

Thanks chaps - better news than I expected
I'd actually emailed them and the reply included the link above so assume it is reasonably up to date. When I am ready to actually pay them a visit I will call first though having never been am sure there will be something that takes my fancy
Once I'm back from my travels i will look to getting it set up and get some new pictures.
Thanks again, as always
Martin

[MatsP]

Let me know when you are going (assuming it's a weekend day), and I'll tag along/drive...

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

What an amazing thing....the Auchenipterids are a pantropical catfish family with their largest member now being Auchenoglanis biscutatus

Auchenipterids in Lake Tanganyika

bugger

I could have stacked my Tropheustank with a bunch of Ageneiosus and still keep it taxonomically correct

guess I missed an oppertunity there

[Martin S]

Let me know when you are going (assuming it's a weekend day), and I'll tag along/drive...

Of course!

[Richard B]

Let me know when you are going (assuming it's a weekend day), and I'll tag along/drive...

Of course!

Me too - no promises but Wildwoods is in my top 2 retailers.....

[Marc van Arc]

I don't mind which one of you, but somebody should grab those Auchenipterus nigripinnis!

[Martin S]

I don't mind which one of you, but somebody should grab those Auchenipterus nigripinnis!

What are the chances of them being what they are listed as? Price wise obviously much more affordable than the sp(3), but as they are not listed in the catelog, do you have any idea on size or any pics of what they should look like so I don't end up with something else?
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Good question..... Of course that's difficult for me to say.
I could send you a PDF on Auchenipterus (or have I already done that); you could have a look?

[MatsP]

Mark, can you send a copy to me too - my email address is similar to the webmasters, but my first name at, etc.

--
Mats

[Martin S]

Good question..... Of course that's difficult for me to say.
I could send you a PDF on Auchenipterus (or have I already done that); you could have a look?

Marc
You have sent me some already, though am not able to check until back in the office tomorrow. No hurry as won't be going for a few weeks yet, but I may email keith at wildwoods and see if he has a pic of them to see it that helps.
Leave it with me.
And Mats - if I have the PDF I'll send it over.
Martin

[Richard B]

And Mats - if I have the PDF I'll send it over.
Martin

I'd be interested too...

[sidguppy]

odd looking beastie....

[Marc van Arc]

Mark, can you send a copy to me too - my email address is similar to the webmasters, but my first name at, etc.

Is that with or without the "P"?

[Marc van Arc]

odd looking beastie....

Ah, see you've got the Aquashop True picture. I was hesitant to put it over here for they're sometimes wrong with their IDs. So the question remains: is this the genuine A. nigripinnis?
However, even if they called it Betula pendula I would take some for sure

[MatsP]

Without.

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

Done.

[Martin S]

odd looking beastie....

Odd indeed...I have to say it doesn't jump out as the best looking auchenipterid out there! (Sorry Marc )
Do we know size - my concern would be mixing them with

Tetranematichthys wallacei

, knowing his appetite, as the pic sid has included looks like quite a small fish.
Or I could keep both tanks running, and use the 30" for them...but would need another power filter, which is why I had decided to get rid of the tank! Decisions, decisions!
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

Don't make this too difficult for yourself and stick to your initial choice: Ageneiosus sp 3!

[Martin S]

Don't make this too difficult for yourself and stick to your initial choice: Ageneiosus sp 3!

You are probably right.
I did email them anyway, and got a response with the following link to the species record for A. nigripinnis on the Aquarium Glaser website, which may be of interest.
Martin

[sidguppy]

the picture of Ageneiosus sp 3 on the stocklist looks great.....why not go for "Less is more"?

in this case: less species, but more fish?

most Auchenipterid keepers here follow the same approach as a stamp collector; they want to get "the whole set"

but I think restricting yourself to a few species and keep the freeswimming species in a shoal might be a much better approach.
not just because of the aesthetics (it looks good), but also because i think fish like this one actually live in groups or shoals

why not go for a roomy tank and keep, say, 8 or 10 ageneisosus sp 3 with a few semi-small Doradids (6-8 Doras punctatus or Hassar or so), some docile Loricariids (3-5 Pseudohemiodon for example) and a few Hypoptopoma as algae eaters?
i think with 3-4 species of oddball catfishes the whole tank would look o much better and you'll be pioneering as well, cause i dare to say that nobody keeps them in this manner as of now.

[Martin S]

Thanks Sid.
Based on my new tank size, realistically, I only really have room for two, maybe three at a push, of the sp(3). Do we think they will be happy to shoal in a small group?
They will be sharing the tank with 2

Liosomadoras oncinus

*, 1

Doras punctatus

*, 1

Rhinodoras boehlkei

*, 1

Tetranematichthys wallacei

and 2 or 3 adult

Pseudolithoxus anthrax

. I would like, in time, to add to the numbers for fish marked *, especially

Liosomadoras oncinus

.
Martin

[sidguppy]

your list of fish is exactly what I meant by "stamp collector's approach".

you have several species in there that should be kept in a small group or even a shoal to be happy.

I think you should choose between the fish you have. ditch some, add others.
the doras for example is a true shoaling fish. if you want to keep it in the long run, best add at least 6.

i't is also a fairly fragile fish and it is suspectible to foodcompetitors. IMO the combination between a voracious species like Liosomadoras and a slowmoving shy fish like Doras punctatus is not a good one.

Doras punctatus does better when kept with Corydoras and other small fish, otherwise it will stay very shy, grow slow if any and most likely will waste away in a year or so.

I have kept this species several times and had most success when kept in a group of 10 as the biggest catfish in the tank; the other cats were Dianema, mochokiella, Amphilius and Corydoras robinae.

once I quit with that tank I gave themto a friend who had several larger Doradids (platydoras armatulus, orinocodoras eigenmanni),pleco's (hypostomus cochliodon), hoplo''s etc.

all 10 were gone within 8 months......

[Martin S]

Sid
Yes, I agree the Doras is better in a shoal, though is actually quite active at feeding even in the light. Maybe, if Mats does get himself some next weekend, I will pass mine single specimen on and give it some company. What other fish do you think should be in shoals? Although the Rhinodoras is not active in the light, it has done well so far and is growing and putting on weight so can only assume it is voracious enough to feed alongside the Liosomadoras. I would definitely like more of these as they are a nice looking fish, even though they are more shy than the jags.
In your opinion, what other fish would you ditch and what would you add? I would like to keep what I have, with the exception of the D. punctatus for obvious reasons, but am just interested in what you would keep/change.
Thanks
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

I did email them anyway, and got a response with the following link to the species record for A. nigripinnis on the Aquarium Glaser website, which may be of interest.
Martin

That is one brilliant fish. I wouldn't mind adding some to my stamp collection.

[Martin S]

FYI the fish Wildwoods have are also true A. vittatus - the picture in the link is of the actual fish, and they are about 10-11cm.
I found some images of A. vittatus over on ScotCat, and can see now that they appear to match. They have 5 in stock and have done for a while, which are all feeding well on krill, cockle, mussel, lancefish and live rivershrimp.
I will be setting up the tank this weekend, I have my daughter the following weekend, and am away in istanbul the weekend after so it will vbe a few weeks before I can get there - I just hope my luck holds out and they are still there when the time comes!
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

FYI the fish Wildwoods have are also true A. vittatus - the picture in the link is of the actual fish, and they are about 10-11cm.
I found some images of A. vittatus over on ScotCat, and can see now that they appear to match.

Martin,
Sorry to disappoint (?) you here, but according to the description the pictures of both Scotcat and Wildwoods undoubtedly show

Ageneiosus sp(3)

. See identification on Data sheet.