Observations and spawnings of Tatia sp2...

[Martin S]

It appears that I have had at least two spawnings from my three specimens, although I don't know whether it's been the same female each time.
I have 6 fry, of probably at least 2 weeks old, and yesterday I found 1 new fry of less than a week which sadly did not survive. I have no idea if there my be more, but it was not until I found them swimming along the surface after lights off that I realised what had happened. It was also how I managed to catch the fry I have saved. They are too small for a standard breeding frap as they disappear through the slits, so mine are living in a net, with a small piece of aquatic plant for cover. I would like to get some pictures, but as yet cannot find anything suitable to use (suggestions anyone?). Maybe once they are a little bigger I can move them to a fry trap as would like to get some pictures for the cat-elog. Currently, the fry I have are about 6-8mm long, but appear to have a very slow growth rate at this size. I'm assuming they could be predated on by the larger C.perugiae, or their parents, until they are at least an inch or so?
The parents are very active, even with lights on, if fed bloodworm, and as mentioned previously, are even more manic in their feeding behaviour than

Centromochlus perugiae

. when feeding they will gorge themselves until full. As noted above, the smell of bloodworm in the water will bring them out of hiding even with the lights on, but no other food appears to have this effect. with the lights off, they will take any frozen food, small bloodworm pellets and Aquarian brand mini catfish pellets. They are less fussy where in the water they feed - the C.perugiae prefer to feed from the surface, whereas the smaller tatias will feed from the surface, mid-water or the floor of the aquarium. I am finally about to move my three adults, along with the C.perugiae, to a second aquarium to stop the risk of them being predated on by the larger

Tetranematichthys wallacei

, and to give me room for my newest addition,

Liosomadoras oncinus

, which I hope to be collecting this weekend.
Martin

[Richard B]

Sounds like a busy & 'productive' (pun intended) start to the year Martin

[Martin S]

Sounds like a busy & 'productive' (pun intended) start to the year Martin

Yes, definitely. I lost a couple of the fry at the weekend, but also found a few more whilst trying to capture the sp2 to move them to their new home. I can only find 2 of the 4 Imparfinis I added as well, and no sign of any dead fish under/behind the tank, so no idea what happened to them...unless the T. wallacei got hungry!
I plan to capture the last two this evening and move them in with the sp2, although thay are proving more difficult than I anticipated! Then, the C.perugiae,

Corydoras reynoldsi

and small male L183 are going to be moved as well, leaving only the larger fish in the 'big' tank. I collected the Jaguar yesterday - sadly Alison lost the smallest of the three, so I took the 'middle' one, which is no bigger than three inches.
Martin

[Martin S]

I have found more fry whilst moving fish around, and have at least 12 very small juveniles. They appear to growing (slowly), and are slowly beginning to resemble the parents. Have tried to get some pictures, but not easy. Will keep trying and add them here.
Martin

[Richard B]

I have found more fry whilst moving fish around, and have at least 12 very small juveniles. They appear to growing (slowly), and are slowly beginning to resemble the parents. Have tried to get some pictures, but not easy. Will keep trying and add them here.
Martin

Good news Martin - nice one

[Marc van Arc]

Martin,
Have you got any idea if the parents leave the juvies in peace?

[Martin S]

Marc
As noted above, I had no idea the spawn had occurred, but whilst moving fish around, I think I disturbed some more fry hiding in a large clump of java moss. I have seen fry swimming along the surface after lights off as well, and with no interest from the parents, so in answer to your question, seemingly so.
Will try my hardest to get some suitable images over the next few days.
Martin

[Martin S]

I appear to have induced another spawn, although I can only see a few eggs - with the Imparfinis in the same tank I am not surprised. it seems, like corydoras, a cooler-water water change is what seems to trigger the spawns - I was in a bit of a rush last night, and instead of siphoning the new water back in, I poured it from a bucket. I then went out and when I got back about 2 hours later, there were a few eggs scattered around. One thing that suprised me is the the size of the eggs and the development of the fry inside them - the clear outer casing, which is about 4mm across, contains what looks like a yellow ball, with a tail and the fry is already constantly wriggling inside the egg. Of the 9 specimens I currently keep (3 Males/6 Females), it is not obvious which of these were responsible for the spawn, but it is incredible to see how quickly the eggs develop, which is a surprise considering how slow the fry grow once they have devoured the yolk sac and started looking for other food. Of the first batch of fry, none survived past about 3 weeks and this was mainly due to my inexperience with both what and how to feed them. I have tried to get some photos, but the eggs are impossible to pick out against the sandy background. If I am able to get a small tank this week, I will try to move any that survive and see if I am more successful in growing them on.
And yes Marc three of the 9 do have your name on them!
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

And yes Marc three of the 9 do have your name on them!

I hope my name wears off quickly; I prefer them in their natural colour pattern
Seriously, thanks a lot! Looking forward to them.

[Martin S]

Looking again in the tank last night and there was at least 30+ eggs , all resting precariously inside a small ball of java moss which is hanging off the bogwood. The loose ones I had seen, I can only assume, 'escaped' from this batch and are now no longer visible.
Think I need to getmyself organised in setting up a small breeding tank, using an air driven filter, and see if I am able to raise the fry.
Martin

[Martin S]

I had another spawn at the weekend, following on from a topup after adding an external filter to the tank. I'm now of the opinion that these are almost definitely internally fertilised, which, if what i have read by searching on here about other Tatia/Centromochlus, that these are no different. Every time I have seen eggs, it has been anything from 1 to 12 hours of them being laid, and each time the eggs already contain 'wigglers'. I know there has been discussion before about this, and without being able to seperate the fish, it's difficult, but to have the fry inside the egg develop so quickly, to my mind at least, they must have been fertilised internally. I just wonder how long before!
Martin

[apistomaster]

I had another spawn at the weekend, following on from a topup after adding an external filter to the tank. I'm now of the opinion that these are almost definitely internally fertilised, which, if what i have read by searching on here about other Tatia/Centromochlus, that these are no different. Every time I have seen eggs, it has been anything from 1 to 12 hours of them being laid, and each time the eggs already contain 'wigglers'. I know there has been discussion before about this, and without being able to seperate the fish, it's difficult, but to have the fry inside the egg develop so quickly, to my mind at least, they must have been fertilised internally. I just wonder how long before!
Martin

Hi Martin,
Congratulations are in order.
Based on your description of the relatively advanced development inside newly laid eggs, and making some gross comparisons to small plecos embryological development, I would guess the eggs must have been fertilized 4-5 days prior to being laid. I know I'm making some large assumptions, one in particular is that these fish do not have the ability to store spermatophores like Poecilids.

[Jools]

I appear to have spawned this species too. Found fry yesterday that look for all the work like newborn guppies. What did you feed them at this size Martin?


Jools

[Martin S]

Congratulations! The pictures of the egss and fry of

Tatia intermedia

in http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=26902 are almost identical the the sp(2) eggs and fry (which is no surprise really!).
When I tried them in a net breeder, I used powdered food and frozen baby brineshrimp, but they did not survive very long. When I left them alone in the tank, I would often see them resting in the algae on the rear glass, so assumed they were feeding there.
This being the first time I had ever bred anything, I was not very prepared or organised!
Be keen to see how you get on but be prepared for the slowest growth - the fry that seemed to survive for several months didn't seem to grow at all!
Martin

[Jools]

Thanks Martin, a couple more questions. What filtration? What plants? I'm worried they might not agree with the power filtration I'm using.

Cheers,

Jools

[Martin S]

Well, I initially had an Eheim Powerball internal filter, and then moved up to a Fluval external not overly powerful and used a single outlet rather than spraybar). Plants - some java moss, java fern, some tall long leaved aponogetum, and 2 Cryptocoryne wendtii 'brown" (which is where the adults seemed to enjoy resting during the day). After lights out you would see the fry manically swimming around the water surface looking for food, so this would seem to me a good time to feed.
HTH
Martin

[Jools]

Interesting, that's almost identical to my set-up, right down to the plants. Thanks Martin.

Jools

[jose.valente]

Hello is a satisfaction in being part of Planetcatfish. I get a paper describing the stages of ontogenetic development of Tatia sp2, since we work with identification of fish larvae, this work would serve to support our investigations.