New Tank Set-up - has it cycled already ?

norms · Post by **norms** » 15 Aug 2007, 20:48

I recently was given a 4ft x 1ft x 1ft tank with external fluval filter, aquarium sand, heater, hood, light the works. The whole set-up had been dormont for around 6-8 months. It used to house Kribs, a plec and a few other fish.

The filter was still full of water and around 3 weeks ago I set it all up, however I just put untreated tap water into the tank, and fired the whole thing up. 1 week ago I introduced 5 black widow tetra and 2 days after that, 2 bristlenose plecs.

All fish seem happy and lively and eating fine so far. I done one partial water change with treated water yesterday (only about 10%). Today I have just performed a water test and the results are: Ammonia - 0, Nitrate - 0, Nitrate - 0. The test kit is Nutrafin Aquarium test kit where you mix 2-3 bottles with 5ml of tank water etc, been told one of the most reliable.

I'm wondering, could the bacteria in the filter survived this long and through the tap water ? Has the tank cycled so soon? I was expecting at least some ammonia or nitrite reading as of now.

I want to replace the Black Widow Tetra's with erm.. Cichlids but I don't want to do this too soon if the tank is not ready.

Is it worth waiting a week or 2 longer and test every few days or does anyone think the tank is now ready?

norms · Post by **norms** » 15 Aug 2007, 21:54

Just realised I mis-heard what I was told

So there are no Nitrates or anything else in my tank, does this mean the cycle has not even started ??

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Aug 2007, 15:40

I think the tetra tests are good, but it seems like you should have a measurable level of ammonia after a week, and probably nitrite too.

You may want to take a small sample of water to your local shop and ask if they can give it a quick test for ammonia/nitrite, just to see if your tests are working right.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Aug 2007, 15:58

The whole set-up had been dormont for around 6-8 months.

When you say dormant, was this with water and filter running but no fish, or was this dry?

norms · Post by **norms** » 16 Aug 2007, 18:13

MatsP: I'll test again tomorrow and also take some water to my local shop on saturday to see what they come up with.

racoll: The tank was almost empty, and the filter was disconnected and not on.

Thanks for your replies

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 17 Aug 2007, 19:34

Looks like you are starting the cycling from scratch.

How old are the test kits?

norms · Post by **norms** » 17 Aug 2007, 21:07

Good question Racoll ...

Best used before 08/2005 ! doh I didn't check, I knew they weren't new kits but not that old!

Looks like I am gonna have to spend a small fortune on some test kits then :/

Any that anyone recommends ? I saw some testing strips on ebay very cheap but have been told they are not accurate at all. These ones I have here still have the prices on them, £7.99 each and god knows how many years ago they were bought if they expired 2 year ago lol can't beleive I never noticed this.

Thanks for pointing that out Racoll

norms · Post by **norms** » 18 Aug 2007, 19:47

LFS said water was fine, I bought a master test kit too. (API Freshwater Master Test Kit) - £26.99

PH 7.8 - 8.0
Ammonia 0 - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10-20 ppm

So I went and bought 2 tiny firemouth's. I was told by the store that they will be fine with my black widow tetras, but i'm not sure. As they grow maybe they will reject them ? But I assume they will be fine with my 2 bristlenose (Ancistrus sp(3))? I don;t know whether to remove the tetras now or give them a few weeks.

There was also a lovely Gold Nugget L018 about an inch and a half - 2 inches, £21. The assistant told me that it would be fine in my 4ft x 1 x 1 tank. I wasn't sure on this so i didn't buy it. I wouldn't of bought it anyway as I'm sure they grow far too big for my tank, and probly not get along with my 2 bristlenose.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 18 Aug 2007, 23:24

as the firemouths are cich lids, thus off topic, I will not go into them - go to http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/index.php for them. However, I worry a bit about your ammonia. 0-0,25 does mean more than 0, and thus a little is aroumd

However pH 9 is not good for any south american fish, not for the Widow tetra neither for the nuggets

Strange the shop assistant said all was OK

norms · Post by **norms** » 18 Aug 2007, 23:53

Ph is 7.8-8 tap water is 7.4 so maybe the sand or rocks?? is buffing it up a little. The tanks staying the way it is now for the time being and maybe the tetras will be going soon. i'll be careful to do frequent water tests too.

Thanks for all advice and comments guys.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Aug 2007, 10:37

With an ammonia reading I don't believe your tank is cycled yet. If it rises any higher, or the fish show any stress, then do a 25%-50% water change.

The rise in pH is quite normal when you set up a new tank. It is the residue from the minerals in the sand/gravel/rocks. Provided you haven't put calcareous materials in the tank, the pH should drop in a few weeks with regular water changes.

There was also a lovely Gold Nugget L018 about an inch and a half - 2 inches, £21. The assistant told me that it would be fine in my 4ft x 1 x 1 tank. I wasn't sure on this so i didn't buy it. I wouldn't of bought it anyway as I'm sure they grow far too big for my tank, and probly not get along with my 2 bristlenose.

Gold nuggets are quite difficult as plecs go though. Not recommended for a new tank!

You are right in being cautious.

I would wait at least a month or two before considering it.

They will grow too big for you tank eventually, but they grow slowly and you will have no trouble re-homing him.

General advice is to make sure they have been in the shop for at least a month, are settled in the tapwater and are feeding well.

They also require warm (27-30C) very well oxygenated water and a mostly vegetarian diet.

They can be aggressive, but this is usually as they approach sexual maturity.

norms · Post by **norms** » 20 Aug 2007, 18:41

Thanks for your advice racoll, much appreciated.

Ammonia reading was nil the next day, and nil today. I'll be keeping a close aye on the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc though. It may have been nil the other day when I tested as I could hardly tell in the artificial house lighting which colour it was closest too. Definitly on the 0 mark now.

I did make a mistake in assuming the tank was 1ft tall. It's slightly larger, 15" tall. I know this does not make much difference as to what fish I can keep, but does add that extra few gallons to the total.

That Golden Nugget really was lovely but I don't think I'd like to buy one anyway knowing that one day I'd have to get rid of him/her, unless I bought a bigger tank in mean time. Which I may not have the room to do as of yet. I'll just admire him whenever I pass him at the LFS /sad lol can't see him staying there much longer anyway as he will be snapped up in no time i bet.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Aug 2007, 19:47

Whilst be cautious about the ultimate size of the fish you get, I'd say that in my experience, gold nuggets grow so slowly that you'd have plenty of time from a 2" fish until it's about 6-7" and too big for your current tank - several years, I'd expect.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Aug 2007, 20:08

Although they grow up to 14" in the wild, I have never seen one above the length Mats mentions (except those imported at a large size) in captivity.

I would not have any doubts about keeping one in a 48"x15"x12" in the short-medium term.

As Mats says, long term may be 10 years away! and even then, they would only need a slightly wider tank (perhaps 18")

Enough time to save up for that next tank.......