is it ich and am I doing right? Pleeeeease advise..

[spot86t]

I picked up 2 bn's yesterday. They were covered with white speckles and fish store had no plan to treat (said they were sposed to look like that). They're beautiful and I hope to treat/save them. Hung them in a basket in my 45 breeder (which houses blue Marron crays) while I got a QT set up.

QT setup:
10gal - no substrate - 12" bubble wand suction-cupped lengthwise across center of tank bottom - lots of air going to wand - new water treated with SeaChem "Prime" - heater cranked to 86F.

Here's what I've done:
In clean 5-gal bucket - added 3 inches of the water the bn's were floating in (while in basket in breeder tank), added basket with fish.
Over 10 minute period, added 1.5" of conditioned, heated water from QT - then added plain airstone.
Dripped from QT until there was 6" of water, removed 2" added small heater (to maintain temp) and dripped more fresh in.
Removed 2" more, and dripped to 6" again.
Note: Whenever water was removed from QT, it was replaced with more treated water so QT remained at 1" from very top.
Put 5-gal next to QT, lifted basket at angle til bn's were on the side of it, put basket sideways in QT and let them swim out.
Added 3/4 tablespoon aquarium salt (over 15-20 minute period).
After 2 hours, took the following shots:





After an hour of calling, surfing and looking for more info, I added API's "Super Ick Cure" at recommended dosage of 2 capsules for 10gal. (recommended by different lfs that I have found to be more trustworthy than where I got the fish from). Just in case they were hungry, I put 2 pieces of zuchinni in - rather than boil first, I nuked in water for 1.5 minutes then rinsed with cool water. Also 2 algae wafers.
Tank chem parameters measured to be last night at 80ppm for hardness, aorund 120 for KH and roughly 7.5 pH. Nitrate/ite were both 0

This morning, many specks seem to have fallen off the fish during the night, new debris floating all around in tank and on fish (perhaps from all that fell off fish and dissolved wafers?). As I expected, food was untouched / wafers were piles of dust). Devised sponge type filter using new media that was for my pond - it's the kind of media that looks like a scotchpad, only less rough. Reasoning is that it will flow more and trap debis quicker (hopefully). Added this and heater to bucket of new water that had been prepared the night before and vacuumed what I could from tank and on/around fish while it was heating. Made for about a 40% water change. Added 1 teaspoon of salt, and contents of another "Super Ick Cure" capsule. Temp has been maintained at 86.
Fish appear to be OK - not lethargic or odd-acting. Actually better - last night they ignored camera completely as tho they couldn't even see it. Today it took longer to get pics as they would scurry away when it got close - moreso with the littler bn - big one noticed but wasn't as skittish. Below are the pics I just took.







Current tank parameters now are 0 on nitrate/ite's, GH is 80, KH is 100, pH is 7.4., ammonia - I couldnt tell if there was any or not - seemed to be a bare hint. I think the water changes and lots of aeration have been keeping it down.

Been doing 10% water changes every 4 hours, when siphoning out debris. After 4 changes I plan to add a teaspoon salt, and one API capsule. I don't know what else to do to speed this horrible thing up. The idea even crossed my mind of getting a long, soft artists paintbrush and lightly brushing them every few hours to speed those speckles off. I think the stress it would cause the fish would do more harm than good tho.
They look terrible, but I don't know if this is the worst of it.

I could sure use some advice on whether I'm doing the right thing, and what needs or ought to be done differently. How high can I safely raise the temp? Should I bump to 88? My gold nugget plecos seem happiest at 86, but normal temp for bn isn't that high is it? Should I bother trying to feed? I've got pimafix and melafix - should I add a touch of melafix just to help with their skin as a general anti-inflamatory?

I just looked at them again - there's a little poop (not sure from who) in the tank - is that a good sign? Should I offer some potato? if so, remove peel? or scrub, cut a slice and drop it in? No Zuchinni left, and no peas/beans either. I have some frozen spinach though.

Any and all help would be soooo appreciated!

[Hell Fire]

Hi,
I have a LOT of unwanted experience with ICh so am glad to help. 1st really ICH treatment is best like king british or waterlife ive found. salt can be added also but is mainly for healing the wounds. 1t you need to know how ICK works to treat ok. Changing the water all the time will not help and using meds and water conditioner wont help at all but cause more probs sometimes.

Ich, or White Spot, is a protozoan parasite that exists free floating in aquarium water (ONLY AT THIS FREE SWIMMING STAGE CAN IT B KILLED!). The first signs of an infection may be rapid breathing, redness around the gill area, or the appearance of tiny white spots on the skin of the fish that resembles white sugar and flashing.

The first thing to do is understand how the life cycle of Ich works. This information is central to the solution.

?Ich? is the convenient way to refer to the organism Ichthyophthirius (sometimes Ichthyopthirius) multifilis. This parasite has three stages to its life cycle: trophont, tomont, and theront. The white spots on an infected fish are visible during the trophont phase of the cycle. The spots are actually scarring that occurs as the parasite burrows into the outer layer of the fish's skin/scales. Beneath each white spot, the Ich is forming a tiny cyst in which it multiplies by cellular division. At this stage of the infection, the Ich is impervious to medication.

When the cysts mature, they burst and release thousands of the tomont stage cells into the water. The tomonts develop a slimy coat immediately after emerging from the infected fish, which allows each one to adhere to aquarium décor, substrate and even the glass walls of the tank. Once the encapsulation is complete, the organism begins a second stage of reproduction by further cellular division.

Finally, the Ich is released from the capsules in its theront phase. These theronts swim out in search of new host fishes and begin the cycle again. It is only during this free-swimming phase of the life cycle that medication is effective. Theront cells are not visible in the water.

So really the best action to take for starts it treat the whole tank.

1. Do a 50% water change and vacuum the substrate well. This will eliminate half of the Ich cells in the tank right away. Make sure you clean all water changing equipment thoroughly and allow it to dry completely before using it again. You don't want to spread Ich to another tank, or reintroduce it to the infected tank during or after treatment.

2. Remove any carbon from the filtration system. Carbon depletes the active chemicals in Ich medication from the water. Throw this carbon away as it may harbor more Ich cells.

3. Gradually increase the water temperature over a period of 24 hours to 86F (30C). This is about the maximum tolerable range for most fish depending, but you should make sure that any other tank inhabitants will be able to survive temperatures that high. Exceeding this maximum temperature for very long can further stress or even kill many fish. I recommend increasing the water temperature with great care. Also, consider the temperature requirements of any live plants during this process.

4. Dose the tank with Ich medication. You can add salt but personaly i dont. It can help healing but be wary, 1tspn per gal is plenty.

5. Try to increase aeration by either lowering the water level to allow a splash from the return flow of your filtration, or adding an air stone. Gill function of infected fish is usually compromised by the Ich parasite and they will benefit from increased oxygen supply.

6. Be patient and resolved. Follow ICH meds instructions carefully. Some say every 48hrs, these are the best. During the 1st week or treatment dont do a water change or the meds will dull down. Some aquarists have had success waiting four days between treatments. Remember - you want to expose the maximum amount of theront cells to the medication for the longest possible time.

7. Perform another 50% water change and then dose the tank again after a few days. This cycle of large water changes followed by medication is repeated AT LEAST four times. Just because there are no more spots on the fish, you can't be sure that Ich is not still alive in the water in the invisible theront stage. Remember to wash thoroughly after coming in contact with treated water!

8. Once the full course of medication has taken place, lower the water temperature slowly, back to your usual temperature, and place fresh carbon in the filtration system. NOTE: It is essential to continue treatment for at least three days after the last visible sign of Ich is gone. Some water borne cells may still be alive in the tank.


Ich infestation, by itself, is extremely stressful for fish, but combined with toxic chemicals and high temperatures the fish are truly compromised. The Ich medication may also damage the biological filter of the tank, so rising levels of ammonia caused by mini-cycling of the biological filter may further endanger a loach's health. Some fish may die during this treatment period, but others may survive. It can be brutal to wait for the chemicals to knock the Ich out as your fish are clearly in distress, but this method has been found by many here to be the most effective treatment for Ich.

I wish you luck, any probs give me a msg i hope this all helps. Its a nasty thing but always find out WHY did your tank get it? New fish? Stress? Sudden change in water condition, sudden temp drop? Whatever the problem tackle that also or it will just come back.

[drpleco]

I really like Kordon's ridich+ for ich. I used it on a tank of 1/2 bristlenose fry and all survived just fine. Their ich wasn't nearly as bad as yours, though. Just a few spots. Ridich+ is available just about everywhere, including petsmart.

How'd things turn out?

[apistomaster]

I suspect the bushnose have a heavy Chilodonella infestation rather than Ich.

The treatment is similar but it will tke longer to clear up Chilodonella than Ich.

If is is at possible examine a skin scraping under a microscope. Chilodonella is a much smaller organisism and you may need 400x to see their chacteristic heartshaped profile. It is much worse on the gills than what you see on the outside skin. This severely stresses them because their breathing is made more difficult.
It could take up to 10-14 days of treatment to clear up. This is my best guess. Refer to several good fish disease texts to choose the meds that are supposed to work. The availability of drugs varies much depending on your Countries laws concerning drug controls.
I have used malachite green and salt. Salt was used only to sooth and promote healing of damaged tissues.
True Ich is much easier to treat but I really don't think that is what you are up against.
I recommend a bare tank with a sponge filter for the treatment setup.
There are a variety of treatment that work and I am not trying to say my method is either the best or most effective. It is just the way I do it.

[husky_jim]

My impression is of Oodinium.

Can you post better pics?

[apistomaster]

It is this guessing that make microscopic examination so useful. Know thy enemy. Armored catfish fish protozoan skin parasites all look very similar to the naked eye.

[nj2tou]

I recently got 3 otos and a week later discovered they had ich. I of course had them quarantined, so fortunately they didn't infect my planted betta tank.

Things were not going well because the tank was small and I was having a hard time keeping it warm. I first tried salt, but couldn't raise the tank temp anywhere near high enough.

they did not seem happy at all and didn't seem to be eating any of the zucchini, lettuce, algae tabs, algae on the java moss or driftwood.

I then tried QuICK Cure for a day before I discovered something else. I was checking out drsfostersmith.com for some stuff when I decided to check the meds section.

I saw Ich Attack by Kordon, which is an all natural med. I'd seen it in Petsmart but didn't think much of it. Then I read the testimonial on the site and thought hmmmm... I wonder if anyone else has had success with it and googled it.

I found monsterfishkeepers.com (they keep HUGE fish mostly) and they raved about it. Wow, I think I need to try this! So the next day I went out and bought it.

I also bought a junior heater and evicted my brother's lone guppy from his algae encrusted tank. LOL! That in itself is another story! (don't worry, he's fine and MUCH better off now that I'm taking care of him)

Well, after a week of warmer water, lots of algae and Ich Attach, the spots that were all over them were gone! they looked much better and after nearly an additional week of dosing (the directions on the Kordon site said that was fine and actually recommended) they are looking terrific. They actually got a double dose - once in the morning and once at night, also recommended on the Kordon site.

I'll tell you - I would never do that with any other medication.

So here's a very big endorsement for Ich Attack.

Only problem is I don't want to put them in my tank now, since they're loving all the algae they're getting in the guppy tank. I hope I have enough algae in my betta tank to sustain them - and that my betta doesn't hate them!