Please Help !! Ulcers !! Bleeding !!

Myrtle · Post by **Myrtle** » 06 May 2006, 08:56

Hi

I have 180 L tank, internal filtration (juwel) Weekly Chemicals KB Safe Guard, Interpet Flora Burst and use Liquisil often too. Ave temp 27c. Gravel, Lava rock and Bogwood

Regular water changes also.

Tested Levels just now : Ammonia = 0 Nitrites = 0 PH =6.0 (a little low?) Nitrates = a whopping great 160 !!

I will give you guys the full history so get ready for a saga !

3 months or so ago a relatively new added dwarf Gourami developed some kind of ulcer on his head and wasted away and died.
Lost 3 other Gouramis for no apparant reason ?

Treated tank for Internal Bacteria and all seemed ok.

Then 2 of my Tetra's seemed to get really slimey and bloated ? I treated tank with Melafix but they died very quickly and all seemed ok again, did water changes and everything ok for a week or so.

Then noticed my Bristlenose had a small faded patch on side (concerned as this was how the Gourami started) Kept an eye and sure enough within a few days a lesion appeared.Lesion started as just a white patch but looked more and more inflamed,other than this fish appeared totally normal, eating and swimming ok.

Treated with Melafix but condition worsened, did not have hospital tank so put Bristlenose in Breeding tank within main tank and monitered closely!

10 days ago I noticed more faded patches on tail and so consulted my local fish store, took a photo and they told me it was an ulcer. Given Waterlife MYXAZIN and Pondmedic Antiseptic Gel to apply.

Treated Tank and got Bristlenose out daily and applied the gel, after a couple of days ulcer seemed to improve but now has flared up again !! Started MYXAZIN again but still got worse, marks on tail now full blown ulcers !!

Bristlenose escaped into main tank so now transferred to hospital tank with nothing but water, safe guard and myxacin, fish no better ? Looks like it is being eaten away more each day and bleeds too !!

Yesterday I noticed an ulcer at the tail base of one of my Odessa Barbs and blood and tonight my Platy has a faded patch which I know will also develop into an ulcer !!

Help !! I don't know what to do !! I have looked all over but am really really stuck !! So scared this will wipe out my tank !!

Tankmates :
I Blue Gourami
11 Rummynose
1 Golden Nugget (3")
1 Plec (peckoltia L147 - poor little guy doesn't have a common name yet 5")
3 Silver Sharks
3 Corydoras
1 Platy
5 Community Barbs
4 Cardinals
6 Neons
7 Mountain Minnows

I am really really worried, some kind of bacterial infection maybe ? Treatment for fin rot seems to just keep it under control but nothing improves ! Have I been given wrong advice ?

Azmeaiel · Post by **Azmeaiel** » 06 May 2006, 13:37

how often do you do water changes? more frequent ones are in order (usually weekly or forghtnightly at 25% to cut them down to between 10-25.)

I have seen these ulcers appear on bristlenose when other fish have columnaris infection. They have been successfully treated with tetracyclene antibiotic and clean water.
I have also seen them in tanks infected with fish TB, an unfortunatley incurable disease.

My advice is to lower your nitrate with clean water and a good gravel vac then keep the water clean with regular water changes. Also check temp is not above 24c (77f) as this can also cause bacterial outbreaks. If possible also cut back feeding to two very small meals a day. This should improve water quality. Most of these diseases occour when water quality gets poor so in any case. fixing this problem will go a long way to fixing your fish, whatever the disease may be.

Myrtle · Post by **Myrtle** » 06 May 2006, 14:47

Thanks very much for the advice,I am hoping its not Columnaris !! Antibiotics only available from a vet in UK

Will do alot more water changes and see how things go.

My tank was going great until I went on hols and the Fish Sitter over-fed and under-cleaned and let all my plant go manky and I came back to a filter full of sludge and skanky water !!

Incidently I have been advised that my tank is over crowded ????? and to have my fish stock ? as that is the cause of my problems !! *confused* Told by a poster on another board !

My fish have so much space in there !! Loads of room ! If I half my stock the fish in my tank will appear like 1 Baked Bean on Toast !!

Fish Soup · Post by **Fish Soup** » 06 May 2006, 16:25

How sure are you of that pH reading of 6? Many hobbiest test kits bottom out at 6. It is possible that your actual pH is really much lower. That could be a cause of the skin/slime problems you are seeing.

I would start with daily 20 to 25% water changes. As the pH of your tap and tank converge you can increase the percent of water changed. Up to 50% daily until your nitrates are around 20ppm. Always use the gravel vac mentioned above. You want to remove as much organic matter as possible. If you do not see improvment then you may need to treat.

You are overstocked, IMO. It can be done, but it will require doing very frequent water changes. To set a WC schedule get your nitrates down to 20ppm. Then test daily until they hit 40. Time for a 50% WC. If you can go a week between WCs your stocking level is good. I supect you will need to do two a week. That's the cost of a "full looking" tank. Any less and these problems, be they pH or infection, are bound to be repeated.

Don

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 07 May 2006, 01:58

If you can bear to part with the silver sharks I think that may ease the bio-load considerably, depending on their size. Large, active fish like that tend to produce a lot of waste and, in any case, they will eventually out-grow a 180l tank.

Getting the Nitrate levels down with water changes is the priority or you will be fighting an uphill battle against any diseases you have to treat. Good luck with it all.

Myrtle · Post by **Myrtle** » 07 May 2006, 22:51

Thanks very much for everyones advice. I have carried out 50% water change in my tank and thoroughly hoovered gravel, will check nitrate levels as advised.

At the moment my sharks are very slim and small but I know they get big ! Will get a larger tank when that happens

..can never have too many tanks.

I have ordered some Tetracyclene from USA and will keep on stand-by.

My sick fish are in a separate hospital tank with no meds ! clean water and seem to be stable, no better but no worse either which is an improvement !

I will get another PH test kit so I can find out the correct PH of my tank ..... thanks for the advice about that ! I could kick myself as I never considered that option ! (my poor fish)

Thanks again

Myrtle

Myrtle · Post by **Myrtle** » 09 May 2006, 19:12

Thanks everyone for all the help.I just found my little Bristlenose dead in Hospital Tank.

I had a good look at her when I removed her from tank and Ulcer very very bad ! Almost 3 mm deep and alot of damage !
Incidently the smaller ulcers had closed but she was obviouly too far gone to treat.

I will keep a very close eye on my tank as I haven't ruled out Columnaris and will keep Antibiotics handy !

Myrtle

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 May 2006, 19:27

Very sorry to hear about your loss...

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Mats