Need Some Serious Advice!!!!!!!

Cory_lover · Post by **Cory_lover** » 17 Mar 2003, 10:25

ok..i have 2 S. nigriventris....they are in a tank with 3 other C. caudimaculatus.

point is, i don't get to see them much very often. I know they're nocturnal and stuff like that..but still...u don't expect me to sit infront of my tank every nite juzz to see them swim and eat. Tank furnishings include only one bogwood and 2 rocks. Is this enough? Should i add plants?

2 options:
OPtion 1: trade them in (my patience is running out0
OPtion 2: Get 1-2 more of them, get some plants.

what to do???

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 17 Mar 2003, 10:30

A rule of thumb with shy fish is: The more hiding spots, the more you see them. They feel more comfortable coming out in the open if they have the security of lots of places to hide if need be.

I added a few piece of PVC piping hidden behind my bogwood a few weeks ago, all of a sudden I see my Auchenipterichthys thoracatus out and about, swimming and eating, when before I would have to start moving things in the tank to make sure he was still alive.

Post by **Silurus** » 17 Mar 2003, 11:36

<i>Synodontis nigriventris</i> are really more comfortable in a larger group of about 4-6. I would say get more of them.
Part of the fun in keeping catfishes is actually getting to see them when they do come out. Heck, many of my tanks look like they have everything but fish inside most of the time.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 17 Mar 2003, 12:21

Another trick to see the cats is adding a lively, peaceful, diurnal, shoaling fish species. Characins, barbs and especially livebearers are well suited for this. They give the cats the feel that it's "safe" to venture out; and they show up a lot more!

Dorad · Post by **Dorad** » 17 Mar 2003, 20:57

Hi,

Have you read the article on catfish basics entiltled " How to see your catfish?" as this might give you some ideas.

Happy fishkeeping

Dorad

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 17 Mar 2003, 23:09

This Synodontis nigriventris is currently living in Pectorale's tank, with a few others of its' kind; the 3 oldest were bought by me as 4-5 cm big fish in the spring of 1984 (!) and two of them died just a few months ago. the others were bought as 4 cm (1,5 year old at least) fish in 1986.
This fish is also at least 18 years old....
their company is a ton of Limia nigrofasciata and Brachyrhaphis roseni, not to mention several Botia's and a fat Agamyxis.
this one's lazy, and laying on the plants (no, pic's NOT inverted

)

So you're in for good, if you like them!
Pectorale's keeping them now alive & healthy for at least 6 years. I've switched first to bigger cats & scumbags like Polypterus eels, and later to Tanganyikan fish; neither of wich are good tankmates for these Syno's.

Cory_lover · Post by **Cory_lover** » 18 Mar 2003, 07:25

ok then...looks like u guys have convinced me to buy and keep more of this fish....Another thing, i have a few clumps of java fern in the tank, if i wanna add more plants, should plants like Elodea be better or broad leaved plants like Anubias or Sword Plant be better?

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 18 Mar 2003, 08:42

All kinds of plants are OK; but broadleafed species are better in general; a lot of those are much thougher, less demanding, and make good cover; whereas fineleafed plants often become collecting places for dirt in catfishtanks, and die easily because of this.
The best plants for catfishtanks include several
-Cryptocoryne species (the easiest to keep are C ponterifolia, C affinis, C wendti de wit and C nevelli),
-Javafern (microsorium pteropus),
-Giant Vallisneria,
-African Onions (crinum natans and C calamistratum),
-Tigerlily (Nymphea lotus) and of course a host of
-Anubias species, of wich Anubias nana and A barteri are the ones most often found in the LFS.
Lotus, C natans and Valli's need quite a bit of light; but make shade by themselves; Anubias and Javafern should not be rooted in the sand, but on rocks, bogwood and PURfoam back panels; the ones that grow rooted in the sand, better do in riversand than in grit of any kind. With the right kind of light, they should do fine without extra fertilizer (fertilizer isn't good for the waterquality in general).
Swortplants (Echinodorus sp) can be used as well; but these need much light, and Ferrofertilizer; and often, Pleco's eat them! they're very tasty according to most Ancistrinae

Cory_lover · Post by **Cory_lover** » 18 Mar 2003, 11:11

hmm...looks like i will settle for some java fern and anubias and swordplants.

About those vallisneria, my lfs sells those normal long ones, they don't have those spirally one...is that alrite?

Post by **Dinyar** » 18 Mar 2003, 15:37

Corylover,

Let's keep in mind that Sid (SG_Eury.) is in fishkeeping experience the grandfather of us all. Plants are even harder to succeed with than fish, so if you don't already have experience with them, I wouldn't recommend any of the plants that Sid and you mention. They are all somewhat demanding in different ways.

Instead, I would recommend easy to grow, fast growing plants like wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) and hygro (Hygrophila polysperma). They also have the advantage of sucking up nitrates and not easily getting smotherered in algae.

To grow most plants -- including these two species -- successfully, you'll need a minimum of 2 watts/gal of lighting. If you don't have that, get it first. Don't worry about fertilizing, but do keep your water clean. Do weekly changes of 30-50%.

Once these plants are thriving, you can gradually start to add some of the other plants that Sid mentioned.

Dinyar

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 18 Mar 2003, 17:17

ehm Dinyar; the plants I listed are dead easy to keep.....
I specifically DIDN'T list any Swortplants (they're more demanding when it comes to nutrients and light) or any fine leafed plants etc. If you want difficult ones, try Potmogeton or so....

To keep easy plants, just do this:
-light: 1-2 watts per square decimeter floorspace of the tank. (this is 10cm x 10 cm, for you inch people). keep this light on for 12-14 hours a day. Kind of lights: a mix of "warm white" or "daylight" bulbs and those pinky/purple lights used for planted tanks, works really well. (here that brand is called "Gro-Lux", you might have it there as well)
-substrate: riversand, about 1,5" to 2" will do fine.
-no clay, fertilizer, peat etc is needed.
-water: anything between pH 6,5-8; T 20-30'C; DH 5-15 will do fine.

I may be "grandfather in plantkeeping" (wich I ain't, you should know the amount of plants in and out of tanks I wasted; it's entirely possible to re-furbish a small Indonesian Island with that amount...), but the species I listed do NOT require special care; if your tank is running OK, the waterchanges are what they're supposed to be (at least 25% every 2 weeks, or more), the substrate is OK, and the bulbs aren't 10 years old, they should grow.

A few more tips for live plants:
#1: once you buy plants, treat them like you treat fish! wich means, NO sudden temperature changes!! A lot of people for example, wash new bought plants in a cold stream under the faucet.....days or weeks later those plants get slimey and die....
It takes plants longer to die than fish, but they die just as fast. Imagine "washing" a new Syno, with cold water before releasing it

If you want to wash your plants, use TANKTEMPERATURE water. And letting the plastic bag with new plants float in the tank for 15 minutes really helps them a LOT.

#2: cut off most of the roots, leave less than an inch, except for Crinum, Javafern and Lotus. Those roots will be crushed anyway, when putting the plant in the sand. In reality; the plant starts hisnew life standing right on top of rotting matter. Many plants then die. Believe me, a plant that was healthy when bought, will make new roots!
Anubias can easily be wedged between rocks or in bogwood. First cut off most of the roots -NOT ALL!- with a scissor; leaving 0,5" intact. On these stubs, new roots will grow, attaching the plant to its' new substrate. NEVER put Anubias IN the substrate! Javafern can be used the same, but rootcutting isn't necessary.
With Lotus, one often buys just a brown bulb. Make sure this bulb is both hard, and heavy. A healthy Lotusbulb sinks! And it NEVER smells. If it floats and smells, don't buy it.
Crypto's are often sold as a "bush" in a small plastic pot or netlike thingy. Remove this, and pull each plant loose from its' neighbour. Cut off the roots till about 1". Plant them separately, at least 5 cm between each plant. Crypto's often 'slime up' when added in a new tank, BUT stay out of the sand!! they will grow back from their "rhizome".

#3: Remove dented and crushed leaves from any plant when planting them. Only Javaferns, OakleafFerns and Anubias don't mind a few rotting leaves on them.
vallisneria's are sensitive to footrot, when new; these too need a 'haircut' when planted. Once established they're fairly hardy. The corkscrew variety is the most difficult; the Giant Val is the most easy to keep. Plant Valli's like Crypto's! One by one.

#4: Most easy to keep in any tank, and I've forgotten them before, are FLOATING plants. The easiest is Duckweed (Lemna minor) might be a bit unseemingly, but it's hardy, eats nitrates by the gallon, and gives a shady cover to catfishes too. This one should be available everywhere.
Another floater is Floating WaterLettuce (Pistia stratoides). This one almost always 'dwarfs' in a tropical tank, but that doesn't keep it from being a plague. Many fry hides in it's roots; it's a useful plant. The same goes for Ceratopteris thalictroides and C cornuta; the Floating Oakleaf Ferns. A bit fragile; but every broken leaf grows into new baby ferns. Especially bubblenest builders love this one (Hoplo's). Floating Moss (Riccia fluitans) is another easy one, although it can get infested with algae. It needs ample light and clean water.
Sid

Post by **Dinyar** » 19 Mar 2003, 00:45

Sid,

Don't have time now for a detailed response but better short than nothing, I hope.

Yes, Anubias, Cryptocoryne, and some other plants you list are easy to grow if you know what you're doing. I grow them myself. I still don't think they're the best plants to start out with.

Anubias grows VERY slowly. In tanks with a large fish population, it tends to develop a stubborn coating of algae. It does not significantly remove nutrients from the water. And it is expensive.

Crypts will melt or grow very slowly if conditions are not right.

And I could continue with many of your other examples, such as Nymphaea, but I don't have the time right now (dinner is on the table).

I'm not saying these are not nice plants, just that they're not the best plants to get started with. Take keeping L-numbers as an example. Nice fish, but better to start with say ordinary plecos or ancistrus.

Dinyar

Cory_lover · Post by **Cory_lover** » 19 Mar 2003, 06:02

or i could just get fake plants..hahhahaha