Need help saving abused emaciated 15 yr old iridescent shark catfish!!! HELP!

[mostlyfairy]

I feel a great sense of relief. Nacho now has a functioning fluval filter operational in his current temporary home (a plastic container holding about 20 gallons of water- stability is the focus now, hopefully one day soon he will be able to move to a 40 gallon aquarium, I almost bought it last night). The 206 filter is holding carbon and a generous amount of both new bio max filter medium and mature bacteria seeded bio max filter medium from my red eared slider's fluval FX5 filter.

Now it is a wait and see game I guess.

Yesterday I set up his bubbler as soon as I was told it did not absolutely need the ball valve. He was SO HAPPY to see the bubbles. I'm not sure if he has ever had such a thing in his 15 years. He plays in them, swims in them, lets the bubbles carry him up and then goes back down to do it again He is overjoyed right now I think.

The current the 206 creates in the small 20 gallons is not too much for him- I am watching to see if it tires him. He seems to enjoy it and I felt it with my hand-it is mild. I have a large sponge ready to go over and dampen the outflow valve if it appears it tires him and he doesn't like the current after awhile.

This would be his fourth day with me and his eyes appear yet better again today-less swollen. The first day I found him suffering in that bucket the lenses were so edematous they would billow in and out with his body motion as he swam. All of that is gone now-their swelling keeps decreasing. He may need to see the vet once firmly stabilized as I was reading about pop-eye (if that's what it is) and he likely has a bacterial component.

I still have 24 hours to go of holding feedings before I am supposed to attempt giving him a night crawler. That is good- it will give him today to adapt to his new filter. He is passing waste. I took a picture of some this morning- I have seen clear to white long strings in the tank but this morning I also something more brown looking- I photographed it in case its important and tells anything key about his health status.

His behavior right now is promising-active, playful, curious It is very rewarding to see him joyfully playing in the bubbles.

I love Fluval products. They are well engineered. The other filters they sell in pet stores are complete garbage and a joke-its absolutely worth it to spend the money and get a good Fluval filter.

I have put my life on hold for 2-3 days struggling to learn what he is, how to stabilize him and get him into what I feel is a safe set up. Today I feel like we have reached an appropriate level of safety so that this is no longer at dire emergency level- with that filter in place he now has a fighting chance to survive. I will just have to wait and continue to do my best.

I will post pictures and an update this evening. I am trying to use my better camera to photograph him so you can see his eyes in better detail, the one I use to photograph my jewelry (I am a jewelry artisan). But capturing a moving subject under water is tricky. Its a pretty good SLR digital camera with lots of settings so maybe eventually I can get it.

Thank you so much Racoll, Birger and everyone else who has helped me stabilize him. I can finally exhale now. An endangered fish being kept in only a container of water is a real emergency. Now he has a decent set up-maybe he can survive. Time to work really hard and try to earn back all the money I just spent!

[NCE12940]

Kudos for working so hard to give this guy a chance for a *real* life

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you so much NCE

well, I am doing my homework, using a Duke University site to learn about the Nitrogen cycle and New tank syndrome. I'm ready to order testing supplies, just to follow the evolution and completion of the first cycle so I learn about it. It seems like the liquid kits are more reliable than the little test strips which I'm reading in Amazon reviews can have a large margin of error (?). I was thinking of getting API liquid kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate & pH. Does this sound reasonable? I figure I can get into GH and KH at a later time if needed, although I did just learn that our Tucson tap water hardness is 280 (very very hard). I don't plan on tinkering with the water by adding anything (unless of course something critical happens and I'm instructed to do so here). I just want to follow the changes in the water chemistry to develop my own knowledge level- it seems like the easiest way to learn quickly.

For others who may find themselves in a similar predicament to mine, here is where the Duke site starts, at the bottom there is always a link to take you to the next section-its excellent:
https://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/cycling.html

[racoll]

I was thinking of getting API liquid kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate & pH. Does this sound reasonable? I figure I can get into GH and KH at a later time if needed

I would get only the ammonia and nitrite kits (maybe nitrate also, so you get a fuller picture of how the tank is cycling). The others are not important.

[mostlyfairy]

Thanks racoll, I will just get those.

All is stable.

Racoll, did you see me post this video previously? You may not even need to see the video since you know fish so well- do you think Nacho could be what they call a short body paroon shark? Could this explain how he is 15 yrs old, only 6 inches long and still alive, not dead from organ failure?
https://youtu.be/oBOMYus0wQA

Here is the current set up, about 20 gallons in a 30 gallon plastic container. This container was found at the scene of the emergency where I discovered him on Thursday. I grabbed it as something to take him and put him in because I had nothing. He remains in it right now in the interest of stability. The band over the top is thick tape to help prevent the sides from bowing out from water weight:


This is mission control to help clue me in about the water as I learn. The temperature has been kept close to 80F all this time again because of stability- that is the temperature it comes out of our tap in Tucson AZ USA and likely the temperature his water was sitting at in the bucket outside for the four days he was abandoned before I discovered him:

the pH stays around 7.4 and that doesn't seem to be a concern to all of you who know better anyways. The seachem ammonia alert meter did turn light blue this evening indicating the first "alert" level of 0.05 ppm.

Is this tolerable for him and a good thing-signaling the natural and necessary beginning of the nitrogen cycle? When I see this low level of positive ammonia, should I do a 10% water change or do nothing?

He moved his bowels this morning and here are pictures in case it tells you fish experts about his health. I had a good laugh over the fact that my life has been reduced to posting pictures of fish poop online (and pretty soon I will be cutting worms in half too I'm sure)! To the left you can see it in the net and to the right you can see it in its natural state floating in water:


This afternoon actually was the 48 hr mark but I did not offer him a night crawler yet. First I wanted to tell you about the ammonia detector activating and ask about how to respond to that.

Can I begin to offer him one half of a giant night crawler (they are about 4 inches long) tomorrow?

I understand now about new aquarium syndrome and the nitrogen cycle. Thank you for having me get excess food out of the tank and hold his food. I understand now why the focus is on preventing too much ammonia production. I am worried about how starved he is and hope to be able to start feeding him now that he has good filtration that has been seeded with some nitrogen processing bacteria from a mature filter. The turtle's filter is huge with lots of media in it, so I can always add more if needed too.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you for all the help-you are helping to save his life. His behavior looks excellent- he appears extremely happy, active, swimming. The swelling in his eyes looks even better this evening than it did this morning. He must have been pickling in ammonia for four days in the bucket- my God, how is he even alive? Its crazy.

He moves too fast for my good camera to autofocus on his face yet, but I got his pretty fins:

[mostlyfairy]

Here is a video of Nacho swimming around:

https://youtu.be/nUUsiLrZpM0

[bekateen]

Keep up the good work!

By the way, I couldn't help but notice in the video that when Nacho talks, its lips aren't moving. How is that possible?

Cheers, Eric

[mostlyfairy]

LOL Eric! I guess he has ventriloquist abilities ;) Thank you for the encouragement.

I am probably going to attempt feeding him half a worm this evening and do a 10% water change as previously instructed.

Parts of his fins are now flaking off in the bottom of the tank. I assume this is the natural outcome of the horrific damage his body suffered from the four days last week trapped in the bucket, not from anything I am doing now. I have made sure he is not hitting anything when he swims in circles. It is like he is shedding necrotic fin skin. He lost a big chunk of his tail. Poor Nacho I still have great hope for him. His demeanor is bright, energetic, curious. I marvel that he is alive every time I look at him.

[racoll]

I am probably going to attempt feeding him half a worm this evening and do a 10% water change as previously instructed.

Good plan. Lets hope he eats it. Keep changing 10% of the water daily.

Racoll, did you see me post this video previously? You may not even need to see the video since you know fish so well- do you think Nacho could be what they call a short body paroon shark? Could this explain how he is 15 yrs old, only 6 inches long and still alive, not dead from organ failure?

He could be one of these selectively bred forms. Hard to say until he gets a bit healthier and we see some decent pictures of him from the side.

[mostlyfairy]

I offered him half a juicy living active night crawler. It was squirming around. He did not go for it. I left it in there for a couple of hours before fishing it out. He is not ready to eat yet. I also fished out his broken fin parts he is now shedding so they don't pollute the water chemistry.

I remember when I found Rainforest the turtle discarded in the park and took her in, she would not eat for the first week and a half I had her. I guess given what he has been through it is no wonder. He did eat his crappy cheapo tropical fish food flakes the first day I found him so he had a good meal after the trauma of being in the bucket.

He needs time. I will be patient as you have suggested previously and offer another worm in a couple of days. I will do the 10% water changes daily anyways as there is some ammonia being produced (his metabolism is still going, just less waste from not eating).

Thanks for checking in

[racoll]

That's a shame he didn't eat the worm. You could try some of the flake food he is already used to, but if he doesn't eat it within 20 mins, then remove all of it.

[mostlyfairy]

I did just that. Glad my brain's working OK. I put a big flake in there for him, let it float for about half an hour till it went down. he ignored it, I fished it out. He isn't hungry yet.

[mostlyfairy]

Good news The Nacho ate some fish flakes tonight, about a teaspoon of them! They are the old crappy expired top fin tropical fish flakes she left out in the heat that probably have no vitamins left in them. But at least he ate. If he loves those flakes, at least I will go buy him unexpired flakes of this same brand that have not been out in the heat and have vitamins in them.

I tried offering a 1 inch piece of worm when I saw him go for the flakes. I was so excited I picked up the worm with my bare hands, no gloves (that's a really big deal for me, trust me). But he didn't take the worm. He has never seen a worm in his existence I bet. Hopefully one day he will feel much better and his instincts will work again.

I will give him a day's rest from food and then offer a little more, go slow as directed to prevent too much ammonia. The seachem ammonia gauge continues to read between .02 and .05 ppm (between safe and alert). I'm waiting for nitrite and other testing supplies to arrive. I keep doing the 10% daily water changes.

His eyes look terrible today. And he lost a bunch of his tail fin yesterday. Its like his skin is now shedding from the damage it sustained last week in the bucket. His right eye bulges out, his left eye looks like it is burst open. AT first it seemed his eyes were healing because the swelling was decreasing but now they look awful again. There are traces of tiny bursts blood vessels around the rims of both eyes-you can kind of see the red in the picture. Its hard to look at. I'm used to being able to take an animal in pain to a vet and get it pain medicine, put a syringe in its mouth and give it something so that it doesn't hurt as much. Not as easy with a fish But his general demeanor continues to be very happy, alert and good. He is enjoying swimming in the current of his clean water. I'm glad he ate.

This picture is not good but I will still post it. He swims too fast. Each day I try to get a good one. One of these days I will get a really good shot of his face for you. His cat fish whiskers are all gone from his abuse. But I still like his face-its very cute. He comes up to say hi to me when I walk over to the water and talk to him.

[mostlyfairy]

Please, I need more guidance about Nacho. His behavior has changed for the worse. Let me explain.

His activity swimming has slowed down some. He also sometimes parks himself over the heater even though his water has stayed stable at 80F this whole time. He ate about 1 teaspoon of cheap tropical fish flakes on Tuesday June 9th.

I offered him a trace of food on Wednesday June 10 but he would not take it.

Today Thursday June 11th I fed him again and really observed him. I now understand he has lost much of his vision since he first came to live with me last week.

So I found him one week ago, Thursday June 4th when I signed a new apartment lease. He had been left to die in a 5 gallon bucket, cooking in his own waste. At first I thought his eyes were improving in their appearance. It seemed their swelling was decreasing. But then they began to shed dead damaged skin. The first few days I had him he could easily dart up to the surface to collect fish flakes as they floated. He could also get food off the bottom of his container when it sank. He could see where the food was.

Today he tried and missed the food 90% of the time. He was hungry but couldn't locate his food.

I don't know anything about fish. Nacho is showing decreased agility in his swimming and hovering around the heater even though his water temperature has not changed.

Using logic, I believe this could be one of two things:
1.) his metabolism is breaking down his own body for energy because he is not eating- the calories to keep moving around the tank and run his body have to come from somewhere.
or
2.) he is suffering ill effects from ammonia build up in his tank, or "new tank syndrome", what I was warned about. It is important to note that the seachem ammonia meter remains at a color between 0.02 and 0.05 ppm between safe and alert and I continue to do daily 10% water changes as instructed by racoll. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY SPIKE OR SUDDEN CHANGE ON THE AMMONIA METER-ITS COLOR HAS BEEN STABLE.

Using my best logic, I believe the problem is issue #1, not enough nutrition and furthermore I am pretty certain it is because Nacho is adjusting to new vision loss. His eyes have peeling skin on them now from necrotic tissue they are shedding due to last week's trauma in the bucket.

I have found a partial solution (hoping my thinking is correct), which is to put a larger than normal amount of flakes on the surface of the water a few different times a day. Flooding the surface of the water with flakes results in him successfully getting flakes in his mouth with several of his attempts to eat before they go to the bottom and he stops trying. The whole process takes 5 minutes at which point I must then spring into action with the net and promptly fish everything out before it can significantly pollute his water. It takes a lot of work but I seem to have been successful in fishing all the flakes out twice now. There also seems to be an increase in his energy and improvement in his demeanor after he eats (no hovering over the heater). I have closely watched his ammonia meter and it remains somewhere between .02ppm and .05ppm- with no changes despite this feeding method today. (water temp is 80F, water pH is 7.4). His nitrite and ammonia testing kits will arrive by mail tommorrow to give me more exact information (I guess? I will have to learn how they work).

QUESTIONS:
1.)DO YOU THINK HIS DECREASED ACTIVITY IS FROM NO NUTRITION OR PROBLEMS FROM AMMONIA TOXICITY?

2.)IS IT LIKELY THAT FISH CAN EVEN GET AMMONIA TOXICITY AT THESE VERY LOW LEVELS OR AM I REASONABLE IN THINKING THESE ARE SAFE RANGES AND TO CARRY ON AND WAIT FOR THE NORMAL NITROGEN CYCLE TO KICK IN?

3.)CAN I RAISE THE AQUARIUM TEMPERATURE TO 81F (FROM 80F) SINCE NACHO IS HOVERING OVER THE HEATER SHOWING ME HE IS COLD AND HIS BODY REQUIRES MORE HEAT?

4.)CAN I CONTINUE WITH THE FEEDING METHOD I HAVE DEVISED SINCE IT IS THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL MEANS THUS FAR TO GET FOOD INTO THE SEEMINGLY NOW BLIND NACHO AND I AM BEING METICULOUS ABOUT GETTING ALL FOOD OUT OF THE TANK QUICKLY AFTER FEEDS? I HONESTLY BELIEVE HE COULD STARVE AND DIE IF I DO NOT DO THIS.

5.) HOW MUCH FOOD DOES A FISH LIKE NACHO REQUIRE IN A DAY NORMALLY? (he is about 6 inches long, and at his fattest part which is his head area he is about 1.5 inches thick)?

I am trying my absolute best to google and use my brain and common sense but this is insanely difficult for someone who has never cared for even one healthy fish in their entire life. Please help me with any information you can share! thank you!

[racoll]

3.)CAN I RAISE THE AQUARIUM TEMPERATURE TO 81F (FROM 80F) SINCE NACHO IS HOVERING OVER THE HEATER SHOWING ME HE IS COLD AND HIS BODY REQUIRES MORE HEAT?

I think that rather than being cold, he's simply hiding next to the only item of cover in the tank. Most fish will tend to do this in a bare aquarium. Remember to keep the tank out of too much light. Have it shaded by a pot plant or something.

IS IT LIKELY THAT FISH CAN EVEN GET AMMONIA TOXICITY AT THESE VERY LOW LEVELS OR AM I REASONABLE IN THINKING THESE ARE SAFE RANGES AND TO CARRY ON AND WAIT FOR THE NORMAL NITROGEN CYCLE TO KICK IN?

Any amount of ammonia is poisonous. I would step up the water changes to ensure that there is no ammonia reading. Try 25% per day. The tank will take longer to cycle, but at least the fish will be alive. You are adding water conditioner to your water change water, right?

5.) HOW MUCH FOOD DOES A FISH LIKE NACHO REQUIRE IN A DAY NORMALLY? (he is about 6 inches long, and at his fattest part which is his head area he is about 1.5 inches thick)?

I would lay off the food for a few days, until his behaviour improves.

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you racoll. Okay, will do another 15% water change right now to bring today's total water change to 25% and see if that brings the seachem meter down to a lower reading. Yes, I am using water conditioner strictly according to the amount directed on bottle with every added water change (Aqueon brand water conditioner).

It is good to know maybe his behavior of hovering over the heater is not coldness. I don't have a potted plant but can create shade over that area with a blanket suspended from something. I will hold the feedings as you are directing and see. It sounds like you are thinking this is ammonia, NOT starvation. Thank you.

Plan:
1.)Daily 25% water changes for now with goal of 0 ammonia reading on seachem meter.
2.)Continue adding water conditioner with every water change.
3.)Hold feedings for a day or two while observing behavior and ammonia levels.
4.)leave temperature as is.
5.) create some shade around his container with suspended blanket.

[Birger]

I agree the fish is hiding near the only item in the tank as it may be feeling unsure as the eyes start to heal or in reaction to the cycle, you may wish to add some sort of cover when it is feeling this kind of mood, the plant idea is good, you could even cover half the container with a lid.(then you could still watch natcho)


I am a little different in that I would feed still once every day or two day the way you have been...more to keep it in the habit of eating... but that said It is natural for a fish to go through periods of not eating..and your tank can cycle in that time.

Your plan is sound!!

Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you so much for the added input Birger- I really appreciate it. Being a new fish mommy is challenging!

[mostlyfairy]

Just a quick update- I figured something important out. Fish flakes were getting trapped inside the Fluval 206 filter. I took it apart and looked inside yesterday on a hunch. I cleaned it out using only water in a bucket from Nacho's water change to avoid disrupting any good bacteria activity. I got all the flakes out. I also added more of the turtle's established filter media while I was in there.

My new plan will be to turn off the fluval filter prior to putting any fish flakes in his water, let him eat, use the net to get them all out within 5 minutes of his feeding, then turn the filter back on.

Hopefully this will be a way to keep the water ammonia level at close to zero, feed him and let a normal nitrogen cycle evolve. It is important to note that while I have no knowledge of fish-I do have good knowledge of biology. If we were to cut Nacho open I'm not sure if you would find a single area of adipose tissue- he is skin and bones. I understand that it is normal for fish to go through periods without eating, but this severely abused fish may have already endured close to the maximum of that period that his body can handle. The woman who had him may have "forgotten" to feed him for a long period prior to him being left in that bucket for four days. Its very hard to know how much abuse his body has suffered. Not feeding him remains to be an issue I worry about.

Finding that fish flakes were getting trapped in the filter gives me hope that it is reasonable to feed him and still keep the water ammonia levels low. Time will tell. The testing supplies got delayed in the mail and are arriving later today. Hopefully I can learn more from them.

Thank you again for all the help racoll and birger. I am very very grateful. His behavior is more active again. He likes having half his tank covered and shaded.

[bekateen]

Hi mostlyfairy,

Your idea to turn off the filter during feeding is a good one. I use that same technique when I add live tubifex worms to my tank; if I leave the filter on, many of the worms get sucked into the filter. Speaking from personal experience, I have just one warning (and this is obvious)... Make sure you restart the filter afterwards. In my experience, it's easy to get distracted (or called away by something else) and not restart the filter. LOL

Good luck, Eric

[mostlyfairy]

LOL, yes Eric, gotta make sure I don't forget-agree. Thanks for the reminder especially because the turtle's filter is humming away.

[Birger]

I also do not like watching food items disappear into the filter intake but I do occasionally(read often ) get sidetracked and forget to turn filters back on so another option that I do is to slip a block of 20 or 30 ppi foam over the intake, with smaller fish this works as an extra feeding station but in your case will work as a pre-filter so large items do not go into the filter.


Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Good idea. Thank you. It appears Amazon has some of these sponges meant just for aquarium use-I can get some for the long term. I'm tinkering with the new test kits as I write to better understand Nacho's tank and also if Rainforest Jasper's tanks even cycles. The kits will tell me. The turtle people taught me that I didn't have to worry about all this cycle stuff when I first took her in, so I never did.

[mostlyfairy]

Results of testing:

Nacho's tank-

ammonia/ammonium level pre 25% water change
API test 0.75-1.0 ppm (measures harmless ammonium along with ammonia)
seachem meter 0.02-.05 ppm (measures only ammonia)

post 25% water change

API test closer to 0.5 ppm
seachem meter color not really changed

nitrite zero

nitrate-didn't even test today, what's the point, no cycling has started yet.

Rainforest Jasper's tank (the turtle)- ammonia, zero
nitrite, zero
nitrate levels high (80 ppm)

But anyone who was paying attention probably already knew Rain's nitrates were high from when I said she had lush green algae growing in her water. The way to reduce them for her is more frequent partial water changes built into my care routine for her. I can do that. I just need to check in with the red eared slider people who taught me how to care for her and better understand her water needs. Her water is never cloudy-crystal clear but with high nitrates upon testing and some lush green algea growing under the sun lamp.

In any case, from what I understand the test results show that Rain's tank is mature and cycles. It is host to the nitrogen processing good bacteria that I want to set up home in Nacho's tank and filter. But unfortunately, since Nacho's water nitrites still test zero in the presence of positive ammonia for a few days now, it is safe to say those bacteria have not arrived to do their job yet. I did cut off a piece of some of the sponge filter from Rain's fluval and insert it into Nacho's filter yesterday. Maybe the little bacteria prefer to make a home in the sponge rather than the biomax media, you never know.

Plan:
1.) pay attention to ammonia, which can kill Nacho (but kind of needs to be present in trace amount to start a successful nitrogen cycle going). Current water changes are at 25% daily, consider doing an additional smaller water change daily, trying to get ammonia level closer to zero.
2.) pay attention to starvation, which could possibly also kill Nacho (but so can overfeeding, for waste build up and ammonia reasons and also for metabolic reasons after his long term starvation).
3.)Will try to feed Nacho a small amount of fish flakes (all he will eat) every other day and observe ammonia levels and behavior.
4.) will buy some of the suggested sponge to go over the in port for the filter, preventing food build up in it.
5.) start thinking about moving: I am in my old apartment. Nacho is in the container I put him into when I found him on June 4th. I move into my new apartment on July 1st. I will have to transfer him. I can buy 5 gallon buckets with snap on lids and take his established water with us in buckets. I can put him back in this same awful plastic container in the new home or perhaps that would be a good time to transfer him to a 40 gallon glass aquarium so he has more room.
6.) Take measures to reduce Rain's water nitrates-consult experienced turtle keepers and her vet, change her water care routine.

The timing of the move is awful I know in the face of all this complex chemistry I am trying to establish. It cannot be helped. I have to get out of this home and move to my new one next month.

[Birger]

that would be a good time to transfer him to a 40 gallon glass aquarium so he has more room.]

Nothing wrong with moving it into a new tank but make sure to cover the back and sides...after being in the other container the fish could literally freak out in layman's terms, these are known to be a little prone to panic and crashing into glass etc.

In the midst of a move you may want to just use the current set up until you are more settled in. Then you can chose where the tank will go etc. on your own time without having to make quick possibly wrong decisions.

Birger

[mostlyfairy]

Okay, this sounds like a good idea. I didn't know if the old plastic container had value in terms of water chemistry- possibly serving as a substrate for bacteria. I understanding what you are saying about his freak out potential- HIGHLY IMPORTANT POINT, thank you. I have been reading about this fish being known to ram into glass and I have seen him freak out a couple of times now, thankfully just darting in circles.

I like your idea of covering the sides with paper/fabric when he begins life in an aquarium. I will be sure to do this. It may be the smartest choice to just put him back into the plastic container at first while life is hectic for the first few weeks in our new home as you suggest.

Is 40 gallons an appropriate purchase (it is for his current size of 6 inches but what about growth)? Could he have potential to grow substantially after 15 years of abuse? I realize I am asking hard to answer questions. I'm just asking for hunches and best guesses.

My sense is that if he is still alive by the end of this month when I move, then he is going to survive with me for at least a year or a few years to enjoy some good living. I am paying close attention to him and am willing to to do the hourly/daily work to help him and also buy what he needs when he gets in trouble. I work from home which makes his chances of survival higher-I catch stuff fast.

If there is a very high likelihood that substantial growth could begin, maybe I should work harder to try and buy a 55 or 70 gallon for him? What would others do in my shoes? I would like to keep him. On the off chance that something wonderful happens for him, he survives many years and begins to eat a normal diet and grow huge, then I will do the work to find someone with an appropriate sanctuary or large hobby pond/aquarium home who wants him and drive him there one day. It could happen. His story is already beyond belief.

[mostlyfairy]

Nacho had a good meal this morning of his fish flakes and he was even willing to try a couple of catfish pellets this time. The difference in his behavior an hour or two after eating is SIGNIFICANT. His energy is markedly improved- he returned to the well behavior state I felt he exhibited the first few days I had him here-swimming at good speed, doing playful curious things in the bubbles. I just observe more life and activity in his behavior after eating.

His eyes also appear to be improving again (since I have been more aggressive with water changes to get ammonia levels down). I now fear that the recent worsening condition of his eyes may in fact have been in response to the low levels of ammonia in his tank that I incorrectly thought were safe and needed to establish a nitrogen cycle.

It is fair to say I also observe that ammonia levels, even at .05 ppm (per his seachem meter) seem to effect his behavior negatively. There have been enough days where I have been able to observe him now with no ammonia in the water vs ammonia in the water being both fed and not fed for several days.

I am pooling all these observations in my mind and drawing a reasonable conclusion that BOTH factors are affecting his well being significantly-ammonia and lack of feeding.

Here is my question:

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO TRY AND ESTABLISH THIS NITROGEN CYCLE RIGHT NOW? WHY IS THIS BEING GIVEN ANY PRIORITY?

Is it for convenience, because in general people don't like closely monitoring the ammonia levels and doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia to almost zero? Why am I limiting my water changes, limiting feedings and trying to promote establishing a nitrogen cycle, putting this fish's life in danger? What is the benefit of doing that? I understand eventually in his long term home a nitrogen cycle has to establish itself if I don't want to be spending 2 hours a day tending to his tank forever. But for right now his survival is what matters most. This is not a well fish who is moving into a new aquarium. This is a special situation-an abused rescue fish that almost died a week ago- he has special needs.

Back before I started limited water changes to certain percentage a day, I was just changing out a good half of his container or more a day. And back then his eyes were healing and his behavior was well. Then I started limiting the water changes and feedings and got into some trouble, noting sluggish behavior and worsening eyes. I think limiting the water changes out of desire to start a nitrogen cycle has taken me down the road of letting him live with some ammonia in his tank and limiting his feedings to limit his waste production. Why is this of any benefit right now? I am reading and trying to find a reason in fish literature, but I can't.

Again, I understand why any fish needs a functional nitrogen cycle in their tank for their long term survival. But I am trying to save the life of an abused rescue fish who just suffered a huge trauma. This is not the average new aquarium situation.

I am thinking of abandoning any emphasis on establishing a nitrogen cycle and placing all emphasis on
1.) keeping ammonia levels close to zero (I won't do 100% water changes but I may well do 50% or greater if needed-it will depend on ammonia levels).
2.) feeding this emaciated fish conservatively but regularly to slowly, gradually build up his eating routine and get his body used to eating, slowly introducing new protein rich foods with the old flakes he likes.

Are there holes in my thinking? Please point them out. Do not sugar coat things. Do not be worried about correcting me or insulting me. Even though I work as an artisan right now, I am a highly trained scientist that has worked at a very high level professionally- I have worked with some tough critics in my day. Trust me- I can take any input anyone has to offer even if they call me dumb and point out something very obvious I am missing. I just want accurate good information to save this being's life. I am asking for people's honest best opinions on this, especially since I may be missing something that is important about the nitrogen cycle and what it offers the fish (maybe something I have not learned yet).

As always, any comments will be deeply appreciated. I really want Nacho to live. I don't want to make mistakes that cause his eyes pain.

PS- wouldn't this be the exact "special situation" that Fluval ammonia remover filter media is made for? (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQKK2) Shouldn't I just go buy some of this tonight and put it in Nacho's fluval 206? Is there any downside to that? I understand that compounds like "ammolock" to render ammonia inert (but they only work short term) can make your testing kit useless. I have searched the web, the fluval website, amazon reviews and youtube but cannot find if the fluval ammonia remover also renders ammonia testing kits useless. Fluval ammonia remover works as an ion exchange filter, that is all the info I can find on it.

[mostlyfairy]

Nacho's behavior and vision have continued to improve in leaps and bounds since I changed my approach on Saturday to my original focus of large daily water changes (currently at about 50%, done in two increments of 25% morning and evening) and daily feedings.

He can see again-all the eye swelling has disappeared with the ammonia mostly gone from his water. He can locate his food and is eating daily. He has finally learned to eat his more nutritious high protein catfish pellets. He is passing waste daily now that I remove with a net. He is playful and curious and actively swimming. I am no longer afraid for him-he is well again.

My focus will remain on his rehabilitation from almost dying-feeding him and keeping his water safe and clean. I have decided to trust my logic and gut-the nitrogen cycle is a secondary concern to be placed on the back burner for now. I am in the process of seeking out experienced people locally I can consult about this further.

The seachem meter reads "safe" with an ammonia level of less than .02 ppm (API kit which measures both ammonia and harmless ammonium reads 0.25 ppm; remember these API kits will always give a higher reading than the seachem meter because the seachem meter is designed to only detect ammonia without ammonium). Today I purchased some ammonia removing filter media meant specifically for new aquarium situations like this-apparently my situation is why they make this type of filter media. I was told it would not interfere with ammonia testing kits. If I learn any differently I will come back and make that clear for the sake of others having clear information who read this thread in the future.

Someone contacted me by private message to suggest that I research sponge filters and place one in the turtles tank now to get nitrogen cycle bacteria established in it, then relocate it to Nacho's tank when we move to help eventually establish a healthy cycle for his future at some point (the timing should be about right for that). After reading I think this was an excellent suggestion.

I will continue to post here so that others who end up in my situation can use this thread to learn from what I am learning as I go.

[racoll]

The cycling is a necessary evil that will have to be gotten out of the way some point in future, but it sounds like he's responding well to your approach of getting him healthy first and then worrying about cycling later.

Good job!

[mostlyfairy]

Thank you for checking in racoll. I appreciate you confirming that you feel my current plan is a reasonable approach given Nacho's recent response to things and his special needs.