L134 Breeding set up Q's, high temp Q's

[NChops134]

Hello all, first time post on here. I have been keeping tropical fish for a while and have raised several species of pleco, but now I'm ready to put my dream tank together. I am setting up a breeding tank for L134 peckoltia compta, leopard frog plecos. Here are the specs on the tank before I begin asking for advice.

48" x 18" x 12"
100% quartz silica sand substrate
Planter sections filled with eco-complete and root feet tabs
Tons of Malaysian and Manzanita driftwood
Several pleco caves, one for each male, perhaps one for every fish
Fluval 406 canister filter
Jebo internal spong filter/Powerhead
2 - 200 watt heaters

I am currently in the process of cycling the tank, so I'm trying to plan a bit long term for when I can get these amazing fish in. I do not have water parameters yet because the cycle is still in flux. First question I have is on tank mates. I want a few active fish in the tank that can handle the 82-84* that the L134 need. However, i dont want to put the L134 fry in danger when they start breeding. I am going to keep a school of rummy nose tetras because I know they like higher temps. I was also thinking of a few apistogramma, are these safe for the fry? I was thinking about a school of dwarf corydoras, because I've read that they make the plecos more brave in coming out of hiding. However, I have heard that the high temp is not good for any of the three dwarf species. I know that sterbai corys do well in higher temps, but will these larger Cory's eat my fry? What about a few bristle nose plecs? I'd like to keep these instead of Otocinclus, but again don't want to endanger the L134 fry. Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.

Secondly, this is going to be a planted tank. I am of course putting in some amazon swords and Anubias, however I am looking for a couple other options and definitely want some moss to dress up a couple driftwood pieces. My question is what plants and moss will tolerate that high of a temperature (82-84*) ?? I was also thinking about "frogbit" as a floating plant? Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

Lastly, I have heard a few different opinions on current for L134. Some say put the current low in the tank and right across the mouths of the caves. However, I have also heard that the current should be higher up in the tank so that the floor is a more gentle current for them to forage and rest in. So where should my power head be? Up on the top water or down on the sandy bottom?

Thank you all in advance for your help, I love these fish and want to make sure I set up the perfect environment for them before I get them. Once I finalize these decisions and give the tank some time to mature, I will be looking for the L134s on this forum because I'm sure that they are taken care of. Is anyone still breeding these fish? Apistomaster or plecoboy? Anyone new looking to sell a small colony? Well I have rambled Long enough, thanks for your help!

[Matt30]

Hi NChops134

Re were to have the current, passing pass the mouth of your caves is fine just position your powerhead so its creating a gentle flow,I find that as long as its not creating a sand storm the frogs are fine, you will be able to tell if the current is too strong by looking at the resistance from their caudal fins.

I personally think Oxygenating the water is the most important issue when keeping Cats that like it hot like L134s,due the Oxygen being depleted quicker at the required high temperatures,and you said your making it a planted tank also.

[apistomaster]

I use temps in the 84*F range,-/+2*F.
I use a power head connected to a sponge filter lying on its side near the bottom flowing 90* relative to cave openings.

[NChops134]

Thank you both for your replies!

Matt... I figure between the sponge filter air, the separate bubble wand, and the few plants I should be getting a good amount of oxygen right? Even at that high of a temp?

Apistomaster... In my research I have followed your L134 breeding efforts over the past 5 years, I feel like I'm meeting a celebrity haha. I am going with that exact same type of setup that you discussed. Sponge filter with attached power head. To keep it down on the floor I'll turn it sideways like you suggested. I will also run the tank at 84*. I got the idea of separately potting plants in the substrate with fert tabs from one of your earlier posts. Did I see correctly that you used the bottom of two liter bottles as pots? Is that type of plastic safe/inert?

Any suggestion you guys have in regards to tank mates that are safe for the L134s and their eventual fry? I thought I once saw that apistomaster you have kept them with apistos? Was that in the breeding tank itself or just in the grow out? I know you keep them with discus, but I'm not looking to go down that road yet...
Any type of ancistrus? Cory? Or types of middle/top swimmers besides tetras that may be safe for the fry but also do well in high temps?

Thank you all for your time and advice! Want to make the perfect environment for the L134 before I bring them in!

[jsalas623]

Sorry if I go off topic but where are you sourcing them from? These guys are getting harder to find!

[NChops134]

I am still in that process, but confident I can find them. I'm trying to focus all my efforts on preparing a great environment for them before I go down that route haha

[Matt30]

Re Tank mates,providing you like Whiptails, I keep/breed Sturisoma aff.festivum they thrive in L134 parameters and they wouldn't touch any eggs either.
Re dissolved oxygen,I wasn't aware you had a "bubble wand" im sure thats fine.

[jsalas623]

Re Tank mates,providing you like Whiptails, I keep/breed Sturisoma aff.festivum they thrive in L134 parameters and they wouldn't touch any eggs either.

Good to know!

[NChops134]

Thanks Matt! Great info! I just wish I could get into whiptails lol, I've never been a big fan.
You think that Sterbai Cory's or Ancistrus species would mess with eggs? I was thinking of going with one of the dwarf Cory species. I doubt they'd touch the eggs, but I'm not sure how they would fair in 84* water? Some starlight or green dragon Ancistrus would look nice in there, but don't know if they would be too territorial with the L134s or go after eggs? Thoughts?

[Matt30]

I keep Sterbai, and they never tryed to eat any Whiptail eggs, my Whiptails lay the eggs on a bit slate so I would have thought L134 eggs would fine as they are layed in caves.

[NChops134]

" by Matt30 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:41 am

I keep Sterbai, and they never tryed to eat any Whiptail eggs, my Whiptails lay the eggs on a bit slate so I would have thought L134 eggs would fine as they are layed in caves"

Awesome! Thanks Matt! I really am partial to Corys, does anyone know if Sterbai are pretty much the only Cory's that would like a temp of 84*? Would it be too hot for one of the three dwarf Cory species? If so I think I'll go with Sterbai.

Does anyone have any info on keeping BN Plecos, or Ancistrus with L134? Safe for fry?
Thanks guys!

[uaru]

I can't claim to be an L-cat expert, but I personally wouldn't put Ancistrus with L134s. I just had a BN aggression disaster last week - that might've been an isolated problem though because our BN might've been trying to breed. You might be okay on territory disputes with just females or just a male. I can't speak for whether they eat eggs though.

We have L134s in a tank with cherry shrimp (they still seem to be okay at ~83 F) and no other cats. We're going to throw in some tetras that are in quarantine soon, but I'm hoping we have eggs even before that. (There's a pair "getting to know each other" in a cave right now.) On the plant side, we don't have anything rooted in there, but we have a big wad of some sort of large-leafed Java fern on a piece of driftwood in there, and that doesn't mind the high temperature either.

And ditto what jsalas623 said about L134 availability. Just yesterday my husband and a friend of ours were regretting not buying more when we had a chance a few years back. A few weeks ago, we saw some L134s in a LFS for 3x the price we bought them for, and they were all gone the next time we went in.

[NChops134]

Uaru thank you for your reply! What part of Cali are you in? Maybe you could direct me to some good spots (LFS) or aquarium societies locally? I'm in southern CA myself.

I was worried about territorial disputes with the Ancistrus. I have kept them in ones and twos in different tanks but never had a colony before. I'm just hooked on all things Pleco lately. I guess instead of BN I guess I will have to go with a big herd of Otocinclus lol
Anyone else have thoughts on keeping Ancistrus with L134?
Anyone other suggestions on tankmates for breeding L134s?
Thanks guys!

[NChops134]

Also, on your question of availability, I have seen zero in LFS locally. However, there are several breeders willing to ship their fish. I've even seen some good looking F-1s around lately. Also, L134 are seasonal breeders, so usually they'll be around for a while, then disappear for a while. I'm willing to exercise a little patience, that's why I want a perfect set up for about 8 of them ready to go so I can swoop on them when they come up.

[apistomaster]

I often kept Cherry Shrimp with my breeding P.compta but that is all.
I may have posted an odd photo taken at a time when I had mixed other fish temporarily with a breeding colony while setting up new rearing tanks. I know I have posted photos of P.compta juveniles in grow out tanks which also contain juvenile Sturisoma and Apistogramma.
I would never keep two or more species of plecos together in a breeding tank.

Both the wetspottropicafish and snookn21 frequently list wild P.compta on aquabid.com and are reputable online fish dealers. They are usually about $60 each.

[uaru]

NChops134: I'm in San Diego. My husband lived in Culver City before and shopped at some of those LFS's, but it's been a few years. We also used to live in Berkeley, so we know about some of the bay area stores.

In San Diego, there are three stores where we get our fish: Aquatic Warehouse, Pet Kingdom, and PetZone. IMO (and I'm not affiliated with any of them), they all have their pluses and minuses, and the quality of their stock changes depending on what they've picked up in recent weeks. We belong to the San Diego Tropical Fish Society.

Where in Southern California are you?

[NChops134]

I'm in Orange County, about an hour and a half north of SD. I have been to petzone and talked with the owner. He is a quality guy and has a great variety of Plecos, even saw my first real zebra Plecos in person. I'd love to get info on some of the fish keeping societies down here. Does the SD society have events or conventions? I'd love to be be a part of it, especially now that I'm breeding. By the way, pm me if you are looking to pick up some more L134. I have found a good provider. And please more info on local fish keeping societies! Thanks!

[NChops134]

Another question for the breeders out there! I am debating between getting wild caught L134 and F-1 fish to start this breeding project. With wild fish, I know that they are FULL of parasites and take some time to get healthy. Also, if I go this route I've been told it is common to lose several fish during the treatment process. Conversely, tank bred F-1s would be more reliable and healthy, but have heard they can be more difficult to breed. Has anyone had success breeding F-1 L134? I'd love to hear opinions on starting this colony with wild fish vs first generation. Thanks!

[uaru]

PMing you about some local fish events.

[NChops134]

Preliminary set up

I'm finally up and running with a preliminary set up. Heres a pic. I have yet to add the Manzanita branches to simulate downward tree roots, the river stones, plants and caves. However, this is a look at the first stage. Got an internal powerhead/ filter, fluval 406 and plenty of air running through right now. Thoughts? Suggestions? Scolding remarks? Haha

[jsalas623]

Looks great just seems too open! Maybe adding some rocks with crevices to hide would make it more appealing. The thing is with these guys they seems to hide alooot especially when their first introduced to the tank. But they do come out when its feeding time!!

[NChops134]

Thanks for the input! I'm going to be adding broadleaf all along the back, as well as several manzanita branches coming down from the top in the middle. I figure with the addition of these two features as well as the caves I should be good right? Also, the picture doesnt do these deoftwood pieces justice, they are huge and have lots of overhead cover. I will also be adding river stones along the tank to simulate the rio tapajos riverbed that they are found in. Thanks for the input!

[NChops134]

Here's a pic of the GIANT manzanita branch I will be cutting up and using to fill the middle section with downward facing roots.

[jsalas623]

Wow looks really nice!! That should suffice!!

[NChops134]

It's a shame to cut it, but I don't have much choice, it's like 5 feet long haha

[jsalas623]

Yeah its a nice piece!! Just cut it send me the other half!!