Thailand Fastwater Biotype

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 08:58

Following a recent purchase of some (see HERE), I have set up a 5' tank to house them, wanting to set up a biotype tank. The tank currently has a bed of pebbles and a large rock bank at one end (pictures to follow), and filtered by an Eheim 2217. I'll be adding a Koralia Evolution 4000 to give me lots of flow without the heat that you get from a powerhead, and will run the tank (at least during the winter) around 70F.

The intended occupants are the 3 Glyptothorax (increasing to 5 at a later date), 4 Barilius canarensis, 3 Barilius dogarsinghi and 2 Barilius hukaungensis (ID unconfirmed). I have seen some very pretty Homaloptera species (possibly Homaloptera confuzona) at a LFS, and wondered how these would fit?

Any other suggestions?

Martin

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Jan 2012, 10:44

I take it you are aware that the G. siamensis is from Thailand, not India... ;)

--
Mats

Post by **Silurus** » 30 Jan 2012, 11:04

MatsP wrote:I take it you are aware that the G. siamensis is from Thailand, not India

In which case the H. confuzona would be ideal for a biotope setup.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 30 Jan 2012, 12:51

probably hard to get, but i think if you wanted an algae eater in there, you could settle for Garra

some are well suited for a non heated tank.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 14:05

MatsP wrote:I take it you are aware that the G. siamensis is from Thailand, not India... ;)

Yes, I know, not sure why I put Indian! D'oh!

Silurus wrote:In which case the H. confuzona would be ideal for a biotope setup.

Great news, I hoped as much. Guess that means they'll be quite happy in the lower temperatures?

sidguppy wrote:probably hard to get, but i think if you wanted an algae eater in there, you could settle for Garra
some are well suited for a non heated tank.

Alex - have heard that the typical banded Garra we see over here is not suited to the cooler water and it also is not biotype either. What other species of Garra would you find in with Glyptothorax?

I do really like (havinh kept a species many years ago) the Homaloptera, so may well go with those.

Thanks
Martin

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Jan 2012, 14:57

According to fishbase, Garra from Thailand:
Garra cambodgiensis
Garra fasciacauda
Garra fisheri (P)
Garra fuliginosa (P)
Garra nasuta
Garra salweenica
are found in Thailand.

And Barillius spp:
Barilius bernatziki
Barilius huahinensis
Barilius infrafasciatus
Barilius ornatus
Barilius ponticulus

Here's a link to Wiki article on the type location for Glyptothorax siamensis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakhon_Si_Thammarat_Range

Given it's location, I'd expect species that are "Peninsular Thailand" are most suitable, which I've marked with a [P] above.
Unfortunately, none of the Barilius list that they are available in Pennsular Thailand...

--
Mats

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 15:57

Thanks Mats.
I did guess that I'd find it difficult (read near-on impossible) to get exact biotype, but am happy as long as they are from the same type of waters, and fish from the same species are found there, so although not 100% correct, is anyone ever going to know different?!

Martin

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 30 Jan 2012, 17:09

What a coincidence, I was just in Thailand and we collected one or two fastwater habitats. I don't remember everything we collected, but... Besides Barilius and Homaloptera, we found loaches including Schistura sp., Nemacheilus pallidus, and Lepidocephalichthys hasselti (exact identifications pending). We also collected Danio albolineatus and, if I recall correctly, Rasbora daniconius. Catfishes were generally rare. The main predatory fish species we collected appeared to be Mastacembelus favus.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 20:22

Thanks, that's really useful info. I look forward to the trip report

.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 23:11

As promised, some pictures of the tank being set up. Following help from MatsP to wire up 4 double gangs (two in each cupboard) and then get the tank onto the stand and in place, I began to add the pebbles and the first piece of rock:

More to follow once the powerhead goes in, and I add one or two more rocks. Any suggestions for additional furniture? I'd like some plants too, and Elodea has been suggested though not sure how it will fair in the strong currents.
Martin

Post by **Silurus** » 30 Jan 2012, 23:21

Using a more rounded piece of rock would be closer to biotope, I feel. Rounded rocks are also a good place for sucking loaches (if you get any) to perch on.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Jan 2012, 23:29

Thanks HH. I liked that piece as it has a flat side which I've left exposed, but do intend to add one or two largish rounded boulders to the tank as well. Would a branch work, pointing down from the above the surface? I know the current would generally drag them away but want some vertical shapes too. Would any plants survive in this environment?
Martin

Post by **Silurus** » 30 Jan 2012, 23:49

The only wood I have seen in habitats like that are remnants of large logs/trunks that have fallen in the water and were too heavy to be moved by the current. There are generally no aquatic macrophytes in the streams (except maybe in backwaters).

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 31 Jan 2012, 00:18

With all those pebbles in the tank, I would be very worried about uneaten food scraps sinking between the cracks and fouling the water (you may want to add snails as a precaution).

If it were me, I would have gone for a 1cm layer of sand-grit/pea-gravel mix, with a scattering of the pebbles on top.

Regardless of the biotope, I would also add a structure of bogwood branches to the tank. This will give the fish a better sense of security, think.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 31 Jan 2012, 08:31

Silurus wrote:The only wood I have seen in habitats like that are remnants of large logs/trunks that have fallen in the water and were too heavy to be moved by the current. There are generally no aquatic macrophytes in the streams (except maybe in backwaters).

OK, thanks. that's sort of what I expected to hear.

racoll wrote:With all those pebbles in the tank, I would be very worried about uneaten food scraps sinking between the cracks and fouling the water (you may want to add snails as a precaution).

If it were me, I would have gone for a 1cm layer of sand-grit/pea-gravel mix, with a scattering of the pebbles on top.

I do see where you are coming from, but the flow will be very intense and I didn't want sand/grit to get washed into piles (like it currently does in my 2' tank). As there is no fish, I may well empty it down and rescape once the pump goes in (should be arriving today) once I know how strong the curent is going to be. I'll maybe go for, as you suggest, a gravel mix with some pebbles on top and 2 or 3 large rocks. I'll add the branches once that's done.

racoll wrote:Regardless of the biotope, I would also add a structure of bogwood branches to the tank. This will give the fish a better sense of security, think.

Thanks, I would be happier having that too.
Martin

N0body Of The Goat · Post by **N0body Of The Goat** » 03 Mar 2012, 19:59

Martin, hope the Barilius made it back home OK with you and they are starting to adjust to their new home from home (as in Thailand in a fish tank).

Nice to meet you and Mats this afternoon, I was running on adrenaline as I often am after the earlier Saturday start at work!

Looking forward to seeing some photos and/or video clips in good time, fingers crossed on your catfish hunt.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Mar 2012, 20:18

Hi Steve
Yes, all made it home and are now in their new home and looking happy. I have now seen 2 of the 3 Glyptos, so am sure the other one is in there too somewhere! Thanks again, and I hope you get your tanks sorted, and no more losses.
I'll give them a few days to settle in and definitely sort out some photos and video.
Cheers
Martin

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 06 Mar 2012, 21:47

Now the fish have settled in, here's a quick video showing the new inhabitants that came courtesty of Nobody of the Goat at the weekend. I've got three more Glyptothorax coming Thursday

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 06 Mar 2012, 22:18

Nice Opsarius. Which species were they again?

Too me the tank still appears very empty, even with the new cyprinids. How about attaching some artificial plants (silk/plastic) to above the surface, to simulate trailing terrestrial vegetation in the water? I think that would look quite good.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 06 Mar 2012, 22:29

Hi Rupert
Apparently, they are all Barilius. The bright ones are canarensis, and the others are dogarsinghi and possibly hukaengensis.
And yes I know what you mean, I will think about your suggestion, thanks.
Martin

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 06 Mar 2012, 22:35

Martin S wrote:Apparently, they are all Barilius.

The latest studies place them in Opsarius. I guess these kind of trivialities don't matter too much, but it's good to keep abreast of changes to nomenclature.

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 06 Mar 2012, 22:48

To clarify, after sorting/identification, the species we collected in Thailand that I mentioned were Barilius are indeed now Opsarius.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 06 Mar 2012, 23:09

Oh! Ok, I didn't realise. Thanks for pointing the changes out. I'll update any references.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 06 Mar 2012, 23:14

Looking nicely settled. Flow doesn't look that excessive, really...

--
Mats

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 06 Mar 2012, 23:39

No, I'm surprised it doesn't look like its that big a flow, especially as the Koralia has an output of 8,500lph. I'm considering adding a second external once I've sold the 2', giving another 1000lph, will see once I have the filter to play with.

N0body Of The Goat · Post by **N0body Of The Goat** » 07 Mar 2012, 07:37

Great to see them settled in and I notice the Pearls seem quite chilled too. ;)

My concern would be the low amount of water rippling, I always had at least one filter output or powerhead heavily breaking the water surface, for the last year or so their 5x2x2 has had the FX5 (with a 22mm plumbing corner piece replacing the standard double nossle output, concentrating the flow) and the APS2000EF outputs above the water line. Maybe I was a little OTT, but I was always worried about several species in there including the Barilius/Opsarius that are believed to require excellent oxygen levels.

Have you tried repositioning your filter output or raising the Koralia powerhead to just below the surface, perhaps? I suspect you will also see the Barilius/Opsarius move into the higher water, they were regularly up high in my tank when the lighting was not intense.

Good luck with the new Glyptothorax and maybe look into getting positive IDs of the cf. canarensis against those in stock at Pier, to then maybe have a bigger group.

While your tank is now a hive of activity, my 5-footer is looking bare in the upper water and very chilled out, I'm seriously considering a school of Brycinus longipinnis and possibly a group of Pareutropius debauwi/buffei to add after my holiday.

Edit: Just spotted 20 Puntius aurotaeniatus listed at Wildwoods, http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/sto ... &prod=2974, which are found in the Gulf of Thailand. They are very small specimens (1-2cm), but they might be ok when they reach adult size of 6cm http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Puntius ... iatus.html

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 07 Mar 2012, 11:33

Hi Steve

I know what you mean - the external causes a lot of ripling from the spraybay at one end, but it dissipates very quickly - i think it's because of the counter current from the koralia.
I plan to add the second external and have the output break up the surface more at the left hand end, but that will need to wait until the 2' is closed down (hopefully this weekend). I am keeping an eye on them and they are not gasping, very active and all feeding well, so am comfortable that they are OK for the moment. I will, of course, attempt to improve the surface movement as soon as I am able.

Re: the Puntius - TBH I'm not sure I want to add many more fish, I'd only add to the existing species, especially canarensis, but I don't want to reduce the food competition for the Glyptos any more than it is already. I have definitely seen less of them since adding the Opsarius, and still haven't seen all three at any one time.

Thanks again
Martin

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 07 Mar 2012, 19:45

Come home tonight to find the O.canarensis 'getting jiggy'

One of the males is chasing off the other but they are both dropping down to the substrate alongside each other, and it looks like she should be laying eggs whilst he should be fertilising them, but I haven't seen anything produced from either. It does show I've got something right though!
A very short video of one attempt:

Martin

nvcichlids · Post by **nvcichlids** » 12 Mar 2012, 13:17

bump for full tank shot pictures

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 12 Mar 2012, 15:54

I would leave out the algae eaters, the tank would be awesome with everything covered with a good layer of nice green algae.