synodotis lufirae possible white spot? Itching?

[gonnaenodaethat]

i have a lufirae in my tank. I think he's 18/19 years old. Birger helped identify him a couple of years ago for me. Anyway in the past 5 or 6 days I've noticed he's flicking himself on his pipe tunnel in the tank. There's nothing sharp that he can cut himself on. I can't see any white spots but he's so elusive Its hard to check. I added a swordtail to the tank before new year and Its the only thing Thats changed in the tank. It has no white spots on it at all and feeding well. The syno is also feeding well. Its just the flicking Thats worrying me. If it is white spot what can i use? I have lots of aeriation in the tank so would raising the temp help any. At present Its at 28 degrees. Any advise most welcome. Thank you.

[Jools]

Greetings from another Edinburgh boy. What's the pH in the tank? City water is famously soft and it might be the swordtail has introduced ich.

Quick fix, if the pH is below 7, I'd suggest, is add some seashells to the tank. Heating will cure the ich, but it may return.

Jools

[gonnaenodaethat]

just did a test and Its 7.5. Thanks for answering.

[gonnaenodaethat]

just seen a white mark on his side. The side he's flicking. Can't get a closer look because he's watching me and disappears if i move lol. Only got this video because i stayed still for 5 minutes.

Hope that works.




mod edit: Jools: Added youtube tags to view video in post

[Jools]

Yeah, OK, so not ich then. Does look a bit "itchy", wonder if that white mark might be something else but can't really see it from the video.

Jools

[Birger]

I would watch and see if the area he is "flicking" changes location. In the mean time do a nice waterchange and you could start raising the temperature if you would like to get ahead just in case, but I would not go too extreme until you know for sure.

Birger

[sidguppy]

what happened to its' dorsal fin?
looks seriously pruned...

[gonnaenodaethat]

I would watch and see if the area he is "flicking" changes location. In the mean time do a nice waterchange and you could start raising the temperature if you would like to get ahead just in case, but I would not go too extreme until you know for sure.

Birger

Thank you. I'll keep my eye on him. I raised the temp 1 degree to 29. I did i water change yesterday before i took the video. Don't want to put medicine into the tank if i don't need to.

[gonnaenodaethat]

what happened to its' dorsal fin?
looks seriously pruned...

he arrived like that in 1997 sadly. It must have been magnificent when intact. Does anybody know of another lufirae?

[gonnaenodaethat]

still flicking. I just can't get a picture. There is definitely a white mark beside the gill he is itching. Its a tiny white mark. Its the same size as the mark above his right eye which isn't white spot to me. This one on his gill may not be either. Could it be a scrape because he's had a fight with the red tail black shark in the tank? Do cat fish go itchy when their skin heals. Sorry for the Daft question. Hope I've explained myself. Wish i could get a better picture. I'll keep trying.

[Birger]

Could it be a scrape because he's had a fight with the red tail black shark in the tank?

Could be something like that, is the Epalzeorhynchos bicolor(red tail shark) now maturing, could be a bit of a territorial dispute going on.
What other fish are in in the tank?

Birger

[gonnaenodaethat]

hi Birger. They have shared a tank for about 3 years. I took the shark in because Its owners tank burst. He's at least 6 or 7 years old. Its previous owner only had it because somebody wasn't Wanting it any more. I don't see them squabbling very often. The only boisterous one is the lufirae. I also have 1 swordtail, 5 assorted tetra, 1 blue gourami and 1 mountain Minnow (how long can they live!!!!). If he keeps on flicking what would i do next? Just did my early morning check and all the fish are still spotless and no obvious itching. The lufira still has the two white spots. I managed to see them before he disappeared again for the day.

[gonnaenodaethat]

can i put in melafix and pimafix? Just as a precaution?

[Jools]

Personal opinion, but I'd just keep on top of regular water changes rather than change anything drastic or add meds. Could just be healing from a squabble or a scrape. What size is the tank?

Cheers,

Jools

[gonnaenodaethat]

Its 3' long. I'm sure Its just over 100L. I've put melafix in this afternoon. Only put in 10ml though. Its all quiet in the tank just now. He was itching it earlier. The white marks are still there. They're about the size of a ball point pen. Maybe slightly smaller. Will see what he's like on Friday. The water change gets done at the weekend. Should i do it twice a week until the marks go? The white mark on his side is on his gill but not inside.

Ann

[Jools]

How much water do you change as a % and does it come from the tap?

Cheers

Jools

[gonnaenodaethat]

we take out about 20% weekly and replace with tap water. Done that for 14 years so i don't think Its that. Got a 250l tank too that gets the same water and all hunky dorey in there. I've managed to get a better look this evening. Its not a dot Its like a very short Scratch. The white dot above his eye looks like a scrape. Think i may look at rehoming the albino shark. Or Maybe see about putting the lufirae into the 250L but I'm unsure as there is a plec in there that I've had for a long time.

[gonnaenodaethat]

very little itching - so far.

[gonnaenodaethat]

Ah. Much itching tonight. Mark is exactly the same. No bigger. Nothing else new on him or anybody else in the tank. Its either driving him Daft because Its itchy or just annoying him.

[MatsP]

That does sound very much like whitespot - it comes and goes - can you see spots on the fish? If you can diagnose white-spot on the fish, I personally have found Waterlife Protozin to work well. Raised temperature will speed up the parasites life-cycle, and it's only sensitive to medications when it's "free-swimming", so raising the temperature will help, as will doing large water changes to make sure the water is good.

--
Mats

[gonnaenodaethat]

would he be the only one affected? Not had white spot for years and years and it wasn't like this. The white dot above his eye is definitely a scrape. The one on his left hand side isn't a spot. Its like a white line. The other fish are all well and no spots anywhere. The swordtail was the last fish added and Its three weeks now nearly i think. Will do a large water change tomorrow. Will that be ok? Or leave it til Saturday?

[gonnaenodaethat]

right tomorrow i want to put something in for white spot. Whats the best to buy? The one previously mentioned? Do i have to put in a half dose because of the fact he has no scales? Will i do a good water change before adding it to remove the melafix and pimafix? Will i also reduce the temp. Its presently sitting between 28 and 29? The tank has a fluval 3 in it and constantly breaks the water at the top. Do i have to add a pump and an air brick. Really sad this old guy has come down with this. Thanks everybody for reading.

Ann

[MatsP]

If there is no actual visible spots on the fish, then I'd say it is NOT whitespot - it certainly doesn't, in my experience, affect only one side or a small part of the fish. What made me say it's whitespot earlier is that it "comes and goes". This could of course be an indication of many other things. Have you tested the water, particularly ammonia and nitrite can be bad for fish, and in particular ammonia can be an irritant.

As to medication, I have two thoughts that I think you should consider:
1. Most whitespot [and a majority of other fish medications] have quite strong chemicals in them, which are not "pleasant" for the fish. This means medicating unless you know eactly what you are medicating. Medication should only be used if it's known to work on the illness, and other alternatives (such as water changes, which is a general cure for most things).
2. Read the instructions for the particular medication - different medications have different effects on different types of fish, including for example scaleless fish (and yes, catfish are definitely scaleless). Sometimes it's half dose, others are full dose, and some you can't use for certain kinds of fish, because it's bad for them. Unfortunately it's very hard to remember/know every available medication and give the correct advice for any particular brand/type. They come with an instruction sheet: read it, and follow its instructions.

--
Mats

[gonnaenodaethat]

I'm pretty sure i seen another white spot near his tail last night but Apart from netting him I'm not going to get a better look any time soon. Too many hiding places for him. Still nothing on the other tank mates. Just looked at them all. They are much more obliging.

[MatsP]

"Proper" whitespot looks like it's been sprinkled with salt. Large white spots are caused either by mechanical damage, or by bacterial, parasitic or fungal infections. Without seeing the fish (a still photo clearly showing the affected part), it's very hard to say.

--
Mats

[gonnaenodaethat]

no this is bigger than salt granules. Not much but bigger. Will try my hardest to get a picture.

[gonnaenodaethat]

went to my local fish shop I've used for years and they advised doing water changes every few days, Maybe twice or three times a week for now and continue with the pimafix and melafix. I've just to phone if i need any further info or if the situation gets worse. For now he's munching into some bloodworm I've put in so his appetite is still there and he's still very active. Still trying my hardest to get a picture. What do you all use for taking pictures in your tanks?

[gonnaenodaethat]

well the good news is all itching appears to have stopped. The white marks have all but disappeared. All i have done is increased the temp and changed 20 - 25% water every 2 to three days. Also been adding melafix and pimafix daily. The temp is at 29 so i may just leave it at that for now. He's eating very well and is as elusive as ever. Anybody fancy coming and taking his picture for me or give me some tips. I'm finding it impossible lol.

[Birger]

Hmmm, not sure if I could make it over to take pics.
If you are using a point and shoot put it on the macro setting (if it has one, most do) always stay at a slight angle to the glass so the flash doesn't bounce back, and take about 100 shots to get one good one

Birger

[RickE]

i have a lufirae in my tank. I think he's 18/19 years old. Birger helped identify him a couple of years ago for me.

Out of interest, how confident are you in the ID Birger? There are no pics of this species in the catelog, so even one with a partial dorsal fin might be an improvement.