Synodontis Petricola?

[Jim_S]

Hi All,

Bought a group of these a while ago labelled up as Petricola but I have been told that they may well be Lucipinnis (sp).
I've read a few articles and they look like Petricola to me but I thought I'd ask the experts!






Thanks in advance

Jim

[corybreed]

They are Petricola.

Mark

[Richard B]

They look small fish - possibly a bit too small to distinguish between Petricola and Lucipinnis.

There are genuine small petricola being bred and distributed by NHA (which look incredibly similar to lucipinnis)but are still more scarce than Lucipinnis. Additionally most stores still use the name petricola for lucipinnis.

I think time will tell if we see some photos in 6 minths time or so, or if you can find out the source these came from, to your lfs that might help, or even an indication of price (relative to how much other fish cost at the store - ie small genuine t/b petricola still cost £15 in a good value store, more expensive elsewhere - [IMHO])

[Jim_S]

Thanks Guys,

I bought the fish from a reputable retailer known for importing rare fish and were bred on site from some stock they have had for some time in one of their display tanks. I have seen the parent fish and all were well over 4" so hopefully i have the real thing,not that it would be the end of the world if not as they are still stunning fish.
I paid around £12 IIRC
They are around a year old now and about 2.5"

Jim.

[24tropheus]

Sorry to butt in but who are NHA and who is breeding petricola?

All the best James

[sidguppy]

these are NOT petricola, but real lucipinnis

the short blunt snout, compact build and the vague markings of smaller and larger spots are typical for lucipinnis

the real petricola has an even pattern of many small spots, a wide and long snout and an elongated body that looks almost as slim as Synodontis brichardi.

[MatsP]

Sorry to butt in but who are NHA and who is breeding petricola?

All the best James

NHA = Neil Hardy Aquatics. They do breeding of several types of Synos, and do have stock of S. petricola - Maidenhead Aquatics branches around my area have some in stock - around 2.5-3cm/1-1.25" TL for around £20 if memory serves.

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Mats

[Richard B]

I bought the fish from a reputable retailer known for importing rare fish

Many top retailers are still using the petricola name for Lucipinnis - it's extremelt prevalent

[MatsP]

I bought the fish from a reputable retailer known for importing rare fish

Many top retailers are still using the petricola name for Lucipinnis - it's extremelt prevalent

The problem here is that shops usually use the name the wholesaler/exporter uses, and these often use books written anything between a couple of years to a couple of decades ago. The name S. lucipinnis was introduced 5 years ago. So any book published more than 4 years ago is going to be "wrong".

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Mats

[sidguppy]

as fish go; the behavior is exactly the same, with the possible exception that lucipinnis are a bit more visible and a bit more docile.

care is identical too.

it's not so strange that until very recently the lucipinnis was looked upon as a local (Zambian) dwarf variety of the petricola and not even a true species.

[24tropheus]

If the names in my local Maidenhead or any other LFSs were just 5 years out of date.......... then it would be a major improvement.
Can I ask a couple of questions?
For the descriptions of lucipinnis and petricola.........where were the fish from?

And is it likely they have been crossed in the hobby?

Does anyone have some undisputed photos of petricola juveniles?

All the best James

[MatsP]

If the names in my local Maidenhead or any other LFSs were just 5 years out of date.......... then it would be a major improvement.

Yes, I said that books are often decades old.

Can I ask a couple of questions?
For the descriptions of lucipinnis and petricola.........where were the fish from?

You mean where the type specimens used in the research were captured? The (holo)type location is in the Cat-eLog. Unfortunately the paper that describe S. lucipinnis was described in is only available in paper form (as far as I know), but looking in my copy, I find that all S. lucipinnis comes from the southern end of Lake Tanganyika, where S. petricola is distributed from the northern to the southern end of the lake (there are big gaps between the known locations, but one can suspect that they are even more widespread than the locations known - just that no one has collected them in the other locations).

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Mats

[24tropheus]

Thanks, sorry for the edit as you answered.
Any photos of juveniles for petricola?
Example I read that these are petricola but for sure I have my doughts.
http://www.tropicalfish.org.uk/baby%20petricolas.jpg

All the best James

[Tappers]

If the names in my local Maidenhead or any other LFSs were just 5 years out of date.......... then it would be a major improvement.

I provided all branches of Maidenhead with lucipinnis photo labels a couple of years ago - if you see one without the correct label tell them!

I hope you'll find all of the photolabels are only minimally out of date, mainly betrayed by some of the L numbers that were undescribed when they went to print. Of course, I can't stop suppliers using the wrong names or such obsolete genera as Haplochromis but hey, one step at a time..

[MatsP]

Also bear in mind that MA is not a large chain store, they are independent franchises. So each shop is as good as the people running it. Sure, they get help from the main office, and they buy through the same channels and can make deals with suppliers based on their large number of franchises, etc. But they are still run, essentially, as independent stores (or small groups of stores).

So if one store does it "well" and another "badly", it's probably down to the manager of that store - praise the ones that do it well, and inform them ones that do it badly. And because different managers are human (supposedly!), they have different levels of interest in different types of fish, so a manager who is very interested in Synos would keep up to speed with the latest research and label correctly, another manager will just slap some label that roughly matches the stock ["Hey, it looks the same on the picture"]. (And of course, it's not just the manager, there are other staff that have some say in the matter).

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Mats

[Richard B]

Example I read that these are petricola but for sure I have my doughts.
http://www.tropicalfish.org.uk/baby%20petricolas.jpg

These are lucipinnis.

I doubt very very very much if the 2 species would hybridise either in the wild or in tanks without the interference of man - there are man-made multi x pet's (probably lucipinnis) starting to appear - essentially these look like multis with the leading hard ray of the dorsal and pectorals being white -

[Richard B]

Not sure about a confirmed pic of a very small petricola - they are when 1" SL very similar to Lucipinnis.

If buying at this sort of size then you need expert advice or to know the source - for example i've seen the breeding stock at NHA - very impressive, a tank of approx 20+ males and another tank of 20+ females - all Petricola (W/C) -

[24tropheus]

NHA The guys who say they have bred Synodontis granulosus?
Dunno if they would allow a hobbiest like me to see their stuff.
Dunno but maybe getting hold of genuine petricola is beyond my means.
Sad because I would like to try them.

All the best James

[Richard B]

It's highly unlikely that NHA would have visitors who are not retailers. That said you should be able to get a LFS who use them to order Petricola in confidence

[MatsP]

It's highly unlikely that NHA would have visitors who are not retailers. That said you should be able to get a LFS who use them to order Petricola in confidence

And Maidenehead Aquatics are most over the country, and deal with Neil Hardy's. They may not "want to", but should be able to order from them.

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Mats

[Pleco Lover]

Nice looking petricola,one of my fav synos