Breeding bristlenose problem

[cprize]

Hi all, i have a problem with my bristlenose, they have stopped breeding and im not sure why.

They had a castle ornament and a boat ornament at the start, i only had them for a week and the dominant male took residence in the Castle, the females were hanging around the castle, i did a 15% water change and a couple days later i noticed a stray single egg, which i came to the conclusion that they have spawned.

About 8 days later the fry were swimming around, they lived for about 15days then started dying off 1 by 1.

I was dropping algae pellets and putting zucchini in the tank, tank is 4ft in size by the way.

After most of the fry died, i decided to remove the cave and boat ornaments, and put 4 bristlenose breeding logs in the tank, along with 30cm piece of driftwood with anubias growing on it. Since then ive noticed that the 3 8cm males have hung around the entrance of the caves but they dont guard the caves how the male guarded the castle, it almost seems that they abandon them whenever i walk towards the tank. The caves entrance are facing the front of the tank.

The 3 or 4 females that are in there are never hanging around the breeding logs, theyre always hiding on the driftwood.

What can i do to get the males to take residence in a cave? I was thinking move the breeding logs and face them away from the front of the tank?

Also the females are never anywhere besides the driftwood, or on the zucchini.

Ive tried 20% cold water changes to try to stimulate them again, but no luck.

Also any tips on keeping the fry alive? They died around 1cm in size.

Thanks.

[MatsP]

Removing hideous toy decorations is a good start. Most rivers don't have miniature sunken cities in them... ;)

Dying fry can be many things, and it's hard to know what is going on in your particular case. Common causes are "bare-bottom tank", "overfeeding" and "underfeeding", along with "wrong food".

Bare bottom tanks are great for upper and mid-level fish (e.g. discus, angelfish, cichlids, tetras, etc), but doesn't work for bottom-dwelling Pleco fry [and probably not great for other bottom-dwellers] - look back a week or two, and there is a thread about dying fry, and there is probably another one a couple of weeks or a month earlier. Keep going back, and you'll find more suggestions about "don't keep pleco fry in bare-bottom tanks".

Overfeeding is pretty self-explanatory: water quality goes down the pan if you feed too much. Testing for nitrogenous waste (nitrate, ammonia, nitrite) will show if this is a problem. Sudden rise in any of these levels will indicate that there isn't enough water changing being made - or seeing old food laying about...

Underfeeding is also pretty much what it says. Doesn't sound like your problem, and it's likely that it takes more than a couple of days from free-swimming fry to reach a starvation that is fatal.

Wrong food is if you feed too much protein in relation to fibre content in the food. Unlikely in your case, as it sound like you were feeding courgette/zucchini [same plant, different names in different places], which is rich in fibre.

I wouldn't worry about where in the tank the females are. Females tend to "hang" where they feel comfortable - they aren't particularly picky about where they live, unless they are looking for a mate, which draws them to the male's cave. They should lay eggs about every 4-5 weeks during breeding season [which can last most of the year if they are given good food and water quality].

Having multiple males is probably not great - they can fight more than breed if you have more than a single male in a tank. It's by no means guaranteed to prevent breeding - I've seen them breed in multi-male tanks, but I have also seen the result of males spending too much time defending the cave to be able to "vow" the females. One male and 1-3 females works best.

--
Mats

[cprize]

Hi, and thanks for your quick reply.
They have been at the entrance of breeding logs, but never picked one, but the castle ornament was where a specific male always stayed.

Is there a chance that the reason why they havent chosen a cave is that the tank is too bare? I could move the breeding logs to face them away from the tanks front?

Is there any way to "get" the males to take up residence in the logs? lately there all neutral, and hanging on driftwood together.

Also il look into getting a substrate. whats recommended? Thanks.

[MatsP]

Substrate would be sand or fine gravel. Depends on what you like, either will do fine.

I doubt that the direction of the opening of the cave matters much. What may make a difference is the size of the cave (it should be a "tight fit", but not so small that the male and female don't fit in at the same time), and for sure, if the caves are new, they may not feel comfortable with them for a while.

If you have several caves, why not place them in different places, with the opening in different ways. That way, the fish can choose what it likes.

--
Mats

[cprize]

The logs are about 15cm in length and the opening is roughly4cm wide and rounded, the breeding logs are like this but longer, and same diameter all the way till the end: http://www.oztion.com.au/vshops/preview ... num=1&#pic


There are 4 caves, and 3 males.

Any ideas?

Also next time they breed should i remove fry? or keep with parents?

Thanks

[MatsP]

Well, they do look a little bit tall for my [fishes] taste, but I'm sure they are fine. I use saucers for plant pots that I cut a piece of the side off from, so that it makes an entrance. My 4"/10cm male makes it under a saucer that is about 5/8"/1.5cm high.

As to separating the parents and the fry - differences in opinion exists here, but I have never removed fry from parents unless there is a direct threat to the fry (e.g. there is a predatory fish).

--
Mats

[Barbie]

At the top of this forum there is a sticky with questions regarding water quality and tank issues that would provide us with a lot more information to base our replies from ;). The questions might not seem like they apply to you, but very often we find that the answer is in there, along with the parts that seemed the most pertinent. Thanks!

Barbie

[andywoolloo]

maybe they, the parents, know something isnt right in your tank is why they stopped breeding, the babies died after all. sorry about that by the way.

mine liked smaller caves also. and lots of waters changes and big filtration and mostly plenty of veg and fruit. and NLS Growth, and some sinking wafers. and i fed protein about once or twice a week , shrimp, bloodworms, tubifex. the babies can devour a piece of romaine lettuce in now time till its just holy shreds of nothing edible.

be careful what you wish for tho, oce they start they are like little baby making machines.

i m curious to the answers of Barbies questions also.

[cprize]

Hi all, these breeding logs are very popular, they are using them to an extent, but as they were the castle ornament, ill fill in the questions about water parameters soon.

My guess is that they fry didnt get much food, i usually dump 3 forks with zucchini piece attatched to it, about 10cm, and about 2cm thick. By morning its all gone, also i throw in 5 or so algae pellets.

Ive fed them pumpkin on occasion too.

I will test my water and get back to you, but there should be an explanation why they used that ugly castle instead of these nice logs haha!

[andywoolloo]

mine liked these caves for breeding





i got them from zcliff who used to be at plecofanatics which is gone.

[cprize]

Hi all, i have cleaned the tank and there is one fry that made it, its nearly 2cm now, nice gold stomach, round to.

Any ideas why he made it and the others didnt? I also moved the caves, and they are trying to use them more.

Thanks.

[MatsP]

It's almost impossible to say why one fry survives - it is probably just a lucky one.

--
Mats

[PeterUK]

Dying fry can be many things, and it's hard to know what is going on in your particular case. Common causes are "bare-bottom tank", "overfeeding" and "underfeeding", along with "wrong food".

Bare bottom tanks are great for upper and mid-level fish (e.g. discus, angelfish, cichlids, tetras, etc), but doesn't work for bottom-dwelling Pleco fry [and probably not great for other bottom-dwellers] ..... Keep going back, and you'll find more suggestions about "don't keep pleco fry in bare-bottom tanks".

Going to have to disagree totally on this one.

I only EVER use bare bottom tanks for breeding Ancistrus as I find that they just produce too much waste to effectively keep clean using a substrate.
Tanks have a large sponge filter, piece of bog wood and 2-3 terra cotta plant saucers (for breeding in) and that is all that is needed IMHO. I have so many and they breed so much that I have sold my adults and recently sold 200 juvs to my lfs (from this batch) and have several hundred others of various sizes growing on. I cant complain as all of the juv BN that I have bred this year have been exchanged for 10 new tanks and when the last of them are large enough they will be exchanged for more tanks, food and more fish

My guess is that they fry didnt get much food, i usually dump 3 forks with zucchini piece attatched to it, about 10cm, and about 2cm thick. By morning its all gone, also i throw in 5 or so algae pellets.

That doesnt sound like a lot of food for that amount of hungry mouths to me !

For 6-7 adults + juv's of the size you have I would put in a minimum of two 7-8 inch zucchini cut lengthwise into the tank and replace when gone. BN are grazers and need a constant supply of food especially the fry. BN fry cant usually eat their way through the zucchini skin to get to the softer inside so I think that they may be slowly starving to death. After 12-18 hours in the water the inside of the zucchini will be very soft (which the fry can eat easier) but they are not getting the chance as the adults are eating it all before the fry can have a look in.
I also give the tanks a pinch of tetra prime and approx 1/2 tea spoon of bloodworm pellets daily (last pic)

[Old Dave]

I have moved my abn male & cave into a tank mounted fry saver and have about 20 yellow fry sticking to the walls. When do I start feeding? Blanched zucchini OK?
Thanks in Advance,
Dave